The Pebble Blog : Ballot Measure 4 updates

The Pebble Blog

The gigantic Pebble copper and gold prospect in Southwest Alaska is one of the touchiest topics in Alaska today.

In this blog, I'll track news that is significant or interesting about the Pebble project. I'll also try to generate discussion and information sharing about some of the claims and counterclaims about the project, and mining in general.

Please keep your comments courteous and on topic. If you violate the ADN comment policy, your posts will be deleted.

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About Elizabeth Bluemink ebluemink@adn.com

I've been writing about mining in Alaska since 2004 and without a doubt, it is one of the most interesting topics that I cover at the Daily News. I've been a newspaper reporter for the past 10 years. In the Deep South, I specialized in reporting about environmental conflicts and pollution cleanups. For two years, I covered commercial fishing, mining and logging in Southeast Alaska. In my current job as a Daily News business reporter, I write about mining, tourism, Native corporations and other businesses.

Ballot Measure 4 updates

Posted by Elizabeth Bluemink

Posted: August 21, 2008 - 12:05 pm

A lot has been happening in the past 24 hours.

1.) The amount raised so far to campaign on the intiative has hit at least $9.9 million. The "Yes" side portion of that is about $2.6 million.

2.) Gov. Sarah Palin has come out against Measure 4.

3.) A Bristol Bay lodge owner has filed an APOC complaint against the state over its educational campaign on Measure 4, which he says is biased against the proposed law. The commission is meeting today to hear the complaint. I'll be heading over there in a little bit.

Here is the complaint, which Art Hackney told me would be amended this morning to include a new accusation related to Palin's public support of Measure 4 yesterday.

Attachment	Size
APOC Complaint1.pdf	1.56 MB

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Ballot Measure 4 updates

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6 August 22, 2008 - 10:08am | Victor67

Item #3 above

In case someone missed it:
By DNR/DEC 8/19/2008

“There are existing federal and state laws that prohibit discharges and other activities that would adversely affect salmon and human health. State water quality standards specifically prohibit discharges and other activities that could cause adverse effects on aquatic life, including salmon. The standards also protect water quality for drinking water use.”

“In the event that new science suggests that water quality standards need to be changed to fully protect salmon, human health, or other uses, the standards must be modified so that they are fully protective. State water quality standards must be reviewed every three years to insure they stay current.”

“Unlike existing laws and regulations. The ballot measure does not address matters such as how the law is to be applied or the penalties for violating the law.”

“The Ballot Measure appears to exempt existing large-scale metallic mines that have all their permits. However, existing mines will likely need changes to their permits to accommodate future changes in their operations. All future changes in facilities or operations at existing mines would fall under the initiative.”

(Mine) NO ON 4

5 August 22, 2008 - 7:57am | Victor67

No on 4

Am I misreading this? "Here is the complaint, which Art Hackney told me would be amended this morning to include a new accusation related to Palin's public support of Measure 4 yesterday."
Support?

4 August 22, 2008 - 12:22am | ahnamarlene

ITS that dam todds fault...

sarah todds really got ya dragging your feet around...

3 August 21, 2008 - 4:52pm | CingRed

Well, well, well...

as SockeyeMark's has posted so many times, here's his latest quote "Like our Governor said during her election....Take A Stand". Well she did. A big fat GRAND stand too: VOTE NO ON PROP 4!

Now the anti-mining crowd is moping like the fox about the sour grapes.

I'm sure they'd be gloating if their fortune were reversed.

August 25, 2008 - 11:13pm | Sockeyemark

I'll leave the gloating to you

let's see if your still gloating after tomorrow. We'll see if the Governor speaks for the people.

August 26, 2008 - 9:51pm | CingRed

Nah...gloating isn't my sort of thing.

Although I am pleased at the outcome and of our fellow Alaskans.

I don't think the governor spoke for the people either, I think the mining industry was gaining momentum before she weighed in on the subject...but who knows for sure.

August 26, 2008 - 10:07pm | Sockeyemark

Will be interesting to see how the people of Bristol Bay Vote

they are the ones who will take the brunt of the outcome. your lead is by 10 thousand, you spent 900 dollars per vote to get your results.....Thanks Sarah and Anglo.....Sarah's a bigger spender though, she's giving us 1200 dollars for each and every one of us.....Thanks BP,Conoco,Exxon

August 26, 2008 - 10:24pm | CingRed

They had to spend that kind of money...

because a lie makes it half way around the world before the truth put its pants on.

I do agree with your comment about Sarah, she is spender and taxer too! Maybe she'll tap into mining???

August 26, 2008 - 10:34pm | Sockeyemark

If you raise taxes on Oil I guess mining and fishing are fair

game also....I'm not thrilled with the direction we're going. Tax and spend......see you on the next battlefront, you've won this battle but not the war

August 26, 2008 - 10:46pm | CingRed

I hear ya', I'm not thrilled either.

See ya' down the road. Do us a favor though, involve everyday Alaskans next time would you? Just to let you know, I'm really not pro-pebble as much as I am pro-process. Who knows I might be on your side of the fence next time?!

Lastly, that was a quality commercial by BP.

August 26, 2008 - 11:12pm | Sockeyemark

I wish we could single out Pebble, I think if we could Alaskans

would say No to Pebble.....
If you liked the commercial by BP then you'd really like the "I Shouldn't Be Alive" Discovery Channel...;) see you sooner probably than later, and if your on the same side of the fence we could work together.....Good Night

August 27, 2008 - 12:14pm | rfn

That doggone U.S. Constitution....

it just takes all the fun out of killing industries!

August 27, 2008 - 2:01pm | Sockeyemark

Is there anywhere in the Constitution that allows

one industry to kill another?? You thought that ballot measure 4 would kill mining, I think that Pebble will Bristol Bay samon fishing.....who is correct.

August 27, 2008 - 3:21pm | rfn

Not quite the way it is.

Now, things being done in proper legal fashion, the existing rules and regulations will be played out.

The process will not be short-circuited in a maze of confusion and legal manipulation.

If Pebble cannot safely be done, as judged by experts and according to legitimate rules, then it will not be done.

The attempt to circumvent logical administration of responsible regulation has been recognized for what it was. Let's emphasize that "WAS" because it is, after all, in the past. Now the lobby for the elitist sport fishermen can move on to banning commercial fishing to reduce the competition for the salmon.

Enjoy!

August 27, 2008 - 3:44pm | Sockeyemark

Who's experts? Who's rules? who's getting influenced?

If Pebble cannot safely be done, as judged by experts and according to legitimate rules, then it will not be done.
Will be hard to get an unbiased interpretation of rules.
Will be hard to get an unbiased decision on who's facts and who's data.
The games people play___________

August 27, 2008 - 4:31pm | rfn

It may take some time

to become accustomed to living by established rules but it is not entirely impossible.

August 27, 2008 - 4:58pm | demorgan33

It takes no time to just follow

This country was founded by people who questioned the rules and fought the establishment. Can rules no longer change? Now we are expected to lay down like sheep and wait for the ax to fall without so much as a peep? I personally am not done in the fight against the Pebble Project, and I hope others wont lose interest when the T.V. stops reminding them about it.

August 27, 2008 - 7:50pm | rfn

There was a peculiar

means of protest conducted in California some years ago. It involved incivilities directed at the logging industry and resulted in a number of personal injuries. Let us hope that does not become the case in Alaska and, should it begin, it is promptly investigated and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

August 21, 2008 - 6:13pm | rfn

Be patient.

When the super-rich lodge owners arise from the depression after their loss next week they'll be busy again. This time to shut down commercial fishing so they can have the salmon all to themselves.

It will be most tempting to carry their clipboard to help what went around come around.

August 21, 2008 - 6:18pm | demorgan33

I guess I'll say it one more time

I personally have no problem with miners, I do however have a problem with this mine and the companies involved in it.

August 22, 2008 - 7:43am | Victor67

What's the rush.

That's fine. So there will be other ways to protest the Pebble without submitting to this crazy ballot measure.
With out doubt, the Pebble is far from a done deal. I really doubt it will survive the required EIS under current stringent regulations.

The sky is not falling on Bristol Bay nor is it likely to.

I may not like the Pebble either but will wait for the mining plan to decide.

The panic over the Pebble should not be used to stop other prospects throughout the entire state.
Yes on Alaska...Yes on fish...Yes on mining...
No on 4

August 21, 2008 - 9:26pm | rfn

If this were actually

about "clean water" you'd have a point.

It's about turning Alaska into a protected enclave for the very rich.

It's time for some of the innocent backers of this flawed measure to accept that they've been used. They'll come to that realization later when commercial fishing is the next target for a shutdown. Keep those fish for the people whose wealth makes them "better" than the ordinary folks.

August 22, 2008 - 12:35am | PuckFebble

Enclave for the very rich?

What a joke, I am tired of hearing this argument. Right now anyone can hunt and fish and do whatever that location has to offer. Letting this mine move forward is what makes it belong only to the very rich.
You want to take it from all Alaskans and give it to rich foreign conglomerates that have minimal accountability to Alaskans, and for pennies on the dollar. I cant believe you are so cheap.

August 22, 2008 - 8:32pm | njalo99

NAME one Alaskan Mining Company that could produce Pebble??????? actually name one US company that could....... Big mining conglomerates are all over....just not here...... so that story is getting old also

August 22, 2008 - 8:54pm | rfn

I'm having a little

trouble thinking, just now, of one 100% Alaskan owned fish processor of any major size. Certainly many from out of state or out of country........ Of course there are a few "Mom & Pop" operations.......

August 22, 2008 - 9:37pm | njalo99

my point exactly rfn

Thank You

August 22, 2008 - 12:46pm | rfn

And that is yet another

personal attack - "I cant believe you are so cheap." in a long litany of such.

Letting the laws already in place function is a hallmark of those who want Alaskans to have jobs near their homes rather than having to move out. Of course forcing people to move in order to isn't really "ethnic cleansing" but it'll do until the real thing comes along. Won't it!

August 22, 2008 - 2:03pm | ak_iceman2003

Wow...equating economics

Wow...equating economics with ethnic cleansing (?!!). I suppose you view the industrial revolution as a representation of ethic cleansing as well?

And it wasn't a personal attack. Grow some skin.

August 22, 2008 - 7:32pm | rfn

I guess the rules

are open to interpretation.

Without mining there would have been no industrial revolution so to try to ban mining equates to Luddism, does it not?

August 22, 2008 - 10:00pm | Sockeyemark

Nobody is banning mining, how disingenuous

Mining can go on
Fishing can go on
Life can go on
Just not Pebble, Yes On 4

August 23, 2008 - 12:00am | CingRed

Yet again...

let me correct your statement above, since you are implying BM4 is about Pebble. Specifically, it's about all large scale mines, such as Ft Knox, Reg Dog, Pogo, and new exploratory mines yet to be permitted in Alaska. So to clarify ballot measure 4 applies to all new, existing, or future large scale mines. The ballot measure 4 is not specific in nature about any of its content, and there is no mention either Pebble or Bristol Bay in its entire content.

So I ask you, if someone continually attempts to lure people to believe ballot measure 4 is about Pebble and Pebble only is that disingenuous? Especially after the Department of Resources, Law, Economic Development, and Environment has came up and stated that it will.

August 23, 2008 - 1:06am | Sockeyemark

You should read section 3 of the clean water act

It only applies to new large scale metallic mines, quite simple. My statement needs no correction, your post is simply not true. Unfortunately the Governor has sided with you all and I'm afraid our quest for what's right is over,,,,,,,My vote is cast.

August 23, 2008 - 1:56am | CingRed

Oh I've read it, many times...

and YOU know darn well that this ballot measure does not apply to just new large scale metallic mines. That's a bunch a phooey Mark! The Governor and State agencies did not side with 'you all', they read the fuzzy initiative and saw the implications and came to a conclusion that it would effect all large scale mines.

August 23, 2008 - 2:19am | Sockeyemark

Fear has clouded your good judgment,

as you know I was on clean water 2, I know for certain that as much you don't want to accept....it is ONLY FOR NEW MINES. I know darn well that this wasn't directed at the mining industry as a whole, only Pebble. But it has been hyped to the point that you only see it one way. Not the case, but we are where we are seemingly at odds. It's not about shutting down mining at all whether you believe it or not.
I've got nothing against you or your business, just Pebble. It's late you should be sleeping....

August 23, 2008 - 9:23pm | rfn

It is either so poorly

written or is so intentionally vague that it (The Great Alaska Mining Shutdown Initiative) can be twisted anyway anyone might like to stop anything. OK, perhaps someone in Anchorage might be allowed to disturb the ground to plant a shrub or two. But only until his neighbor, they lawyer, discovers he can sue under the terms of this disingenuous masterpiece to sue for millions.

If Alaska is to have any mining industry we must:

Vote NO on Measure 4!

Tear Down That Lodge!

2 August 21, 2008 - 2:05pm | PuckFebble

Way out of line!

I am generally favorable of Gov. Palin, but she stepped way over the line in her statements. She should know by now that there is no "taking of my Governor hat"!

This is totally unacceptable for her to do this, on any issue. As a former supporter of hers, I dont think I will be repeating my vote when the time comes...Shameful

August 21, 2008 - 6:22pm | AKH

Thus us bit about pebble it is about most mines in Alaska

The drafters of 4 could have limited which mines 4 applied to.

4 could have been limited to copper hard rock mines within 20 miles of the coast and near a district with an average return of 20 million reds, and using certain types of minng methods ....etc. etc..
where only pebble would qualify.

Instead they went after all mines.

Vote no. If they want to; the anti pebble boys can rewrite and try again.

August 22, 2008 - 12:30am | PuckFebble

I am sure...

there will be other efforts in the future if BM4 fails. One has to be careful when writing such measures as not to make it an appropriation. One thing will be for sure, if there is a next time around, it will be written in such a way it will ensure Pebble will be blocked while not "shutting down" another that is in a more reasonable location.

August 22, 2008 - 8:35pm | njalo99

mining and fishing

It shouldn't be either /or, we can have both and have had both here in Alaska......for over a hundred years......btw

1 August 21, 2008 - 12:30pm | Sockeyemark

Mite as well not even vote, you got the Gov and staff working

against the voting citizen,,,,mining industry has further reach than i thought,,,,what a sham

August 22, 2008 - 7:23am | Victor67

No on 4

So take your own advice and don't vote then Mark.
No on 4

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