adn.com | The Pebble Blog : Pebble data

The Pebble Blog

The gigantic Pebble copper and gold prospect in Southwest Alaska is one of the touchiest topics in Alaska today.

In this blog, I'll track news that is significant or interesting about the Pebble project. I'll also try to generate discussion and information sharing about some of the claims and counterclaims about the project, and mining in general.

Please keep your comments courteous and on topic. If you violate the ADN comment policy, your posts will be deleted.

------------------------------------------------

About Elizabeth Bluemink ebluemink@adn.com

I've been writing about mining in Alaska since 2004 and without a doubt, it is one of the most interesting topics that I cover at the Daily News. I've been a newspaper reporter for the past 10 years. In the Deep South, I specialized in reporting about environmental conflicts and pollution cleanups. For two years, I covered commercial fishing, mining and logging in Southeast Alaska. In my current job as a Daily News business reporter, I write about mining, tourism, Native corporations and other businesses.

Pebble data

Posted by Elizabeth Bluemink

Posted: May 2, 2008 - 4:55 pm

Folks:
Here is a short story and link that will take you to the first set of environmental data released by the Pebble Partnership. I'd investigate further today but I'm on deadline on some other stories.

-------------------------------------------------

Pebble releases environmental, socio-economic data

The Associated Press

Published: May 2nd, 2008 12:51 PM
Last Modified: May 2nd, 2008 12:51 PM

The industry partnership promoting the development of the Pebble Mine has released the first installment of environmental and socio-economic data collected over the past few years.

John Shively, CEO of the Pebble Partnership, says the partnership has spent $90 million on environmental and socio-economic studies in and around the project site since 2004.

Shively says the data will be released in installments over the next 20 months.

The data, he says, will be released prior to project permitting. He says it will be released with little or no analysis.

The Pebble Mine is a huge copper and gold prospect near Iliamna in the Bristol Bay watershed. Proponents say it will bring jobs and economic prosperity, while opponents say it could ruin the area's wild salmon fisheries.

The report is available online at http://www.pebblepartnership.com.

login or register to post comments

8 May 6, 2008 - 9:32pm | coghillkid

PEBBLE KILLS

Irreversible tragedy awaits greedy fools.

May 7, 2008 - 1:10am | Sockeyemark

Amen Brother

Not that is keeping it simple!!

May 6, 2008 - 11:33pm | pmjusa

PEBBLE WAITS

Irreducible poverty will find naysayers.

7 May 5, 2008 - 7:22pm | akgen

I've always considered myself a 'fence sitter' when it came to

Pebble.

There are many mining operations that have contributed to the local community. Jobs, etc.

As for Pebble, I've read and read. I've even toured the area. Visited with cousin's whom are wonderfully married to individuals in the area... And I've fished, commericially and sport, plus hunted in Bristol Bay Region.

And I've read and read... and with my background in chemistry, I've read even more. I've considered myself a fence sitter because, personally, it is a tough call... to see my cousin struggle financially... well, need I say anymore. He and his family are so resourceful, yet they financially struggle.

I have to ask: does it come down to an actual operation or will it get shown the door? Who knows.
After all the reading I've done. I am done.

My reading adventures lead me down another path... TAXES... What ticked me off was mining operations get incredible tax write offs. Be it a Canadian firm or not, the write offs are HUGE.

After reading about the tax write offs a exploration firm or mining firm gets and then thinking about my cousin and his ever so resourceful family... I've come to the conclusion that Pebble would be taxing (no pun intended) a natural resource (fisheries in Bristol Bay) while securing a HUGE write off...

It totally make me angry that small business pay taxes, work hard to keep costs down, so not to pass on to the costomer, yet mining companies get better than average tax write offs...

Commerical fishing is a business ... and the tax write off doesn't hold a candle to what Pebble is deducting to get their mine.

For some info about tax write offs and mining companies, click the words below... it is about the best synopsis I've found that relates to the tax write offs...

"Like other businesses hardrock mining companies are allowed a variety of income tax deductions such as for depreciation, amortization, healthcare and retirement costs, etc. But mining companies also layer on additional special tax treatments that add up to millions in taxpayer giveaways annually. Meanwhile, mining companies continue to rake in record profits,1 UK based Rio Tinto, for example, took in $7.7 billion in profits in 2007.2 The hardrock mining industry can easily afford to pay a royalty on the minerals they extract for free from public lands"

AND MY FAVORITE PART: (scroll down to the bottom of the page....)

"Companies are also allowed to deduct any royalties they do pay (such as to a state or tribal government, or a private entity) before calculating taxable income. Further, most other countries have rejected the depletion allowance subsidy.9 All of this substantially increases the profitability of hardrock mining companies.
"

It is totally funny that it would come down to TAXES for me to decide about Pebble.

The day our government decides to give commerical fisheries a HUGE tax write off (like hard rock mining gets), is the day I might support a mining operation like Pebble.

6 May 5, 2008 - 10:20am | GrizzleyGal

Thank You Pebble

The Pebble Partnership should be applauded for releasing the baseline data to the public, which appears to be in direct response to the publics urging. Publishing such details prior to permitting is uncustomary and goes a long way in proving the Partnership takes stakeholder dialogue seriously and is committed to a level of transparency perhaps unprecedented in Alaska's mining industry. Clearly, opponents would have cursed Pebble in the absence of such data and will continue to do so nevertheless. I appreciate Pebble's approach to the process.

May 5, 2008 - 9:20pm | Sockeyemark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqrpbgeeyeE

For those of you out there who haven't seen this.....very well done.
I'll stay Opposed myself.

5 May 2, 2008 - 11:37pm | akgen

Wow 90 million ...

since 2004...

So that means how much a month?
- in salaries, contracts

So it will be released over the next 20 months?
- it has got to be some mighty rich data

Hey Shively, lets hope the use of Vista Volunteers didn't collect the masses of scientific data needed. I'm sure you know what I mean eh?

I got to admit, with the pit hole planned, perhaps Shively could get some cruise ships to plan a few ship to pit wall stops.

May 3, 2008 - 1:08am | fly392003

Pebble

Have any of you been in this area? Everyone is fooling themselves if they think they can bloke it, It will be developed one way or another. What is best, a large effort with more oversite or lots of boot leg small outfits sneaking in and trying to come in under any oversite? Let's get our share for the State and still protect what's out there at the same time. I feel this can be done.

Greg

May 5, 2008 - 3:49pm | akgen

Yes, been to the area... love it...

It may be developed one way or another, yes. However I do not believe bootleg small outfits are gonna even get anywhere. It just won't happen with everyone in the state wanting their fair share.

Just curious, do you even know what they intend to extract?

4 May 2, 2008 - 6:06pm | PuckFebble

Dust with 137mph winds

How can they mitigate the copper and tailings dust issue when the three years of baseline date they have showed a maximum wind gust of 137mph, and an hourly windspeed of 90mph. I ask this question of anyone who can answer.

May 4, 2008 - 9:58am | jcn7vc

MagChloride

Magnesium Chloride is commonly used to keep dust down at mining operations. It coagulates the smaller particles and makes them heavier so that they can't be picked up by the wind. Also not hazardous to plant and animal life because it is essentially a salt.

May 4, 2008 - 1:38pm | Sockeyemark

How many Tons do you think it would take

To keep the dust down in the worlds largest open pit mine??? lets throw a few tons of salt around and see what it does to salmon! That's why they don't use salt in Alaska on the roads because of the harm to salmon.
Though your solution seems to be a good one it actually is NOT in a salmon producing environment.

May 6, 2008 - 9:38am | jcn7vc

What are your sources?

In previous posts, Sockeyemark claims to have environmental experience. But in this last comment, I am beginning to wonder exactly what experience you have. From what I have read, MagChloride is less harmful to plant and animal life than regular salt and less corrosive to metal and concrete. In addition, the Japanese make it from seasalt, and in turn use it as a coagulent in tofu. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_chloride. If you have any other source that disputes these facts, please share them.

I find it hard to believe that something produced from seasalt can be detrimental to sea-life, but I don't have any background on marine biology. Maybe you can enlighten me.

May 6, 2008 - 12:34pm | akharvester

Not a scientist but,

The Pebble site is located in and above a FRESH WATER system so we are not talking about detriments to sea life but rather fresh water habitat. It is not about whether or not MagChloride is "bad" or "good" Ask yourself: what are the effects at different concentrations on different organisms (humans need salt right but does that mean that any amount of salt is fine in the human body or can there be to much?), what happens when it is combined with other minerals like copper, sulfides, zinc, acid mine drainage etc., and keep in mind that even cyanide is technically "organic" so names and descriptors can be deceiving. That's probably not enlightening but at least a counter point to your shallow, near sited conclusions above.

May 6, 2008 - 1:35pm | jcn7vc

Salmon Effects

Obviously, too much of anything can be bad for you. I thought Sockeyemark was talking about salmon in the stream, so I was just wondering about components of salt water having an effect on salmon in a fresh water system, other than affecting their surroundings. The salmon can live in either fresh water or seawater, correct?

May 7, 2008 - 1:17am | Sockeyemark

Depends what part of their life cycle they are in

Amazing life cycle the salmon has, be a shame to do away with it. Pebble takes away a lake and several rivers to start with.
Three to seven year life cycle then it dies, probably how long it will take to Kill Pebble!!!

May 6, 2008 - 4:46pm | PuckFebble

Few things

I am not a fish biologist, but a few things I will add, firstly there is more than just salmon. Trout, grayling, char and others poppulate the two creeks in question and the larger watersheds the feed into. But salmon are anadromous, meaning they breed and the young are hatched and spend time in fresh water. So adding considerable amounts of salt could certainly have an impact.
The other concern that is shared about this project is how it could change the "smell" of the river. It isnt entirely known how they migrate back to thier home rivers, but it is generally accepted that smell has a large part of it. A change in ph and any other imbalance of elements etc could have an impact. Undoubtedly it is much more complex in reality, but that is how it was explained to me by a local biologist.

May 5, 2008 - 7:10pm | njalo99

gee

has anyone decided yet Sockeye whether this will be an open pit mine, or are you saying this is the ONLY way it could be done.........hmmm

May 5, 2008 - 8:25pm | PuckFebble

its no secret

That there is at least two parts to this project, a tunnel mine and a pit aspect. That is the only method that will be economically viable to them.
Over a mile wide and several thousand feet deep. It you want a gauge of what it will potentially look like, check out google earth and go to salt lake city utah. Down to the southwest is the kennicot copper mine. Trust me, you Cant miss it.

May 4, 2008 - 6:43pm | rfn

And this is why

The State of Alaska Department of Fish and Game has posted underwater signs just upstream of the mouths of all rivers warning salmon that there's salt water ahead.

Betcha didn't know salmon can't read. Otherwise they'd never go out to sea.

May 5, 2008 - 3:22pm | njalo99

signs

had to read it twice.... too funny

May 4, 2008 - 8:05pm | Sockeyemark

It's magnesium chloride not salt

And the reason they don't put it on roads is because it leaches heavy metals into the water systems.....or it could be the metal from those signs they have under water!!
The magnesium chloride is for dirt in the summer time, like we want to throw a few tons of that stuff around a salmon stream......Not

May 5, 2008 - 12:21pm | rfn

Just the other day a "doctor"

was telling me that The American Diet is terribly deficient in magnesium and that's the root cause of several forms of cardiac and endocrine problems. Diabetes among them. That affliction is rampant among rural residents in Alaska. This suggests that there might be some agenda behind efforts to keep magnesium out of the water and out of the rural diet!

May 5, 2008 - 2:38pm | Sockeyemark

I think your Doctor mis diagnosed your affliction

You seem to stray away from topic's, Pebble is the
subject......like pmjusa said obfuscate seems to be your
problem...

May 5, 2008 - 5:21pm | rfn

Here's the bitter truth.

The Pebble folks should have known better than squander data in this manner. The lines are drawn and there's no changing the minds (?) of anyone taking the time to blog here. The longer the data is out there, the more time available to the spin-meisters to fault and distort it. Not a good move on Pebble's part.

November will see the battle of the big lies (note the plural) and the side that can spin it best will win.

The only winners in this will be the media who grow fat on the propaganda money. Maybe it'll save a few jobs in THAT industry; at least for a while.

May 5, 2008 - 6:12pm | PuckFebble

well put

I dont always agree with you on this issue, but your post sums up reality quite well. Channel 2 and the ADN must just be lovin this.
As for thier data, there is a lot there, but it doesnt say much as of yet. Just baseline data for weather conditions mostly. But it does raise some interesting questions.

May 2, 2008 - 9:51pm | Sockeyemark

They'll probably throw a hose in a nearby lake/river

and pump a few hundred thousand gallons a day
of water to keep the dust down!! So what if they
suck up a few salmon smolt along with it.
Took care of that problem.......whats next

3 May 2, 2008 - 5:44pm | hobbsgh

Good job

If this goes thru maybe we can get lots of people out there off welfare and start living productive lives..

May 2, 2008 - 9:28pm | akterritoryman1947

Your problem is

That you listen to those conservative talkshow nut jobs. That have no clue about the area or it's people. Fagan is the one you probably listen to. I will tell you that there are more people on welfare on the road system than out in the BUSH. Quit listening to those talk shows and talk to people who know what's going on.

May 3, 2008 - 1:01am | CingRed

Speaking of conservative nut jobs...

Art Hackney, isn't he the spokesman for Renewable Resource Coalition? You know the primary opposition to Pebble. Is he the same person who rallies for Ted Stevens? Close bud with Bill Allen at Veco too? Maybe Art was chairman for the GOP and George Bush in AK? Wasn't he partners with Ben Steven acting as directors for the Aluet Corporation during the secret fish deal? Maybe he's got a new secret fish deal? I bet he'll fit in reel (pun intended) well with the Hardy, Orvis, and the Eddie Bauer out-of-state lodge owner crowd. They like coming up here to plunder our resources and leave, they call it an Alaskan quickie! Or, as Bob Gilliam once said 'get rich and catch fish'. All the while not leaving a drop for us while doing so...oh, I take that back they leave a few crumbs for the locals. We shouldn't mess with the good thing they've got, imagine flying all the way to Alaska and seeing a dirt road to their fishing stream! The gall of those Alaskans! We should petition to lock up these sacred waters so we can fly-fish them forever. In fact, since we're fly-fisherman, (and therefore superior to all other fisherman), we should petition Alaska Conservation Foundation & Sportsman Alliance for Alaska, aka Jimmy Carter & Lower Forty-Eight Co., and lock up these lands forever. Alaskan's can not be trusted! We will do exactly what we did in 79', yes, that was a great year for Lower Forty-Eight Co. Indeed, we created D-2, locked up ANWR, Katai, and created the biggest Park in US history for us at Lower Forty-Eight Co. What a blessing indeed, we now control over 60 percent of the State, more than any other State in Union ten fold, and those meddling Alaskan's shouldn't mess with our fly-fishing playground again.

I know the ole' salty dawg red neck Bristol Bay Fisherman are with us now, but when we are thru we'll go after their fish in the bay, because they're taking too many of our fish that go upstream. We can do it, think of the progress we've made on the Upper Kenai!

Seriously, I'm sick of the politics playing out here.

The Alaska Native, Alaskan Bristol Bay Fisherman (that's you Sockeye Mark, even if you're stubborn as a goat :) and resident Alaskan's should have there say, in that order.

Lower Forty-Eight Co., go fly a kite in your own backyard.

Just one Alaskan's viewpoint :-?

May 3, 2008 - 1:44am | PuckFebble

Just curious

As to where the foreign based multinational mining companies point of view should be taken?

Also, you do realise of course that all those lodges and all those outside fisherman are the primary source of taxes for the lake & pen borough. So this whole notion that they leave nothing behind is a bit shortsighted. They leave behind schools, and roads, and all functions of borough government.

May 5, 2008 - 3:26pm | njalo99

and the mine's leave nothing behind

they would be paying taxes and build ing roads also.

May 5, 2008 - 3:49pm | PuckFebble

yeah...

and that road wont be allowed to be used except for mine purposes. Yeah there will be some taxes paid if it goes through, but about %1 of the value they take away forever. Meanwhile, oil coughs up roughly %25.
And nothing to the Nushagak communities who are the most highly threatened from downriver water pollution.

May 3, 2008 - 5:59am | CingRed

Well...

First off, the State,that's us, permits mining companies to use our land. Think of it this way: I own a piece of property, an independent contractor (Pebble) comes up to me and asks if they can mine on my property. I say yes under the following conditions: you have to hire my kids (local Alaskan's), I get a percentage of your yield (State taxes), and I get to watch over your shoulder during construction (State DNR). Lastly, being a good steward of my land, I ask that you tidy up, say thanks and shake your hand before you leave.

Of course, some land owners don't even want to hear what the Independent Contractor has to say or offer. That's really selfish don't you think? I mean we are all Alaskan's are we not?

Which leads to the lodge owners, let's be honest here, they don't EVER want any other use for our land than for the clientèle (see above Jimmy Carter & Lower Forty-Eight Co). As a fly-fisherman who guided & catered to the haughty clientèle there before, been there and done that. The Lodge owners grow attached to the land and they believe no one else owns the land but themselves i.e. think Cooper River (dang it there's that mineral word again) lodge owners. So follow me here, together they launch CWI to close mining on their playground, because hey, they're fly-fisherman, supreme benefactor and user over all State land & watershed. To add injury to insult most of the lodge owners and all the clientele don't even live here. Do you ever feel like you're being used and not even being paid for it? Which leads to the next subject.

As a tax payer on the pen, my taxes were $176.00 last year. Whoop-de-doo! The bulk of the funding is from the State for these projects. Guess where those State dollars come from? You got it, mineral rights. I wonder what revenue and benefits the Native community of Wainwright Alaska (insert numerous villages) get from the lodge owners/clientèle on the Cooper River?

I will also let you in on another little secret and this may be a shocker to some, but most lodge owners pay their employees under the table. I know, I know, it's true! So how bout' SUI taxes, tip reporting (tips no, we don't get tips!), and Federal taxes do they pay? Well no one really knows for sure? Gee I hope the DOL doesn't go out there to audit their tax filings and reports. I think it would be down right frightening. I guess I'm not so shortsighted eh.

And since I said eh, is it a Freudian slip or are you Canadian/Brit??? How ironic eh...Have you not realized you've spelled "realize" in multiple posts with an 's' like Canadians & Brits do? Were you once a Canadian, AK hockey player, and now a lodge owner in the area eh? Wait a minute, wait a minute. It all makes sense now. I get the correlation: crass, Canadian, hockey player-- P$%Febble seems like a suitable handle name.

May 3, 2008 - 3:47pm | PuckFebble

The Canadians work for NDM

I am an Alaska native in Dillingham. Not a lodge owner, though I wish I did have one. Though I do play a little hockey. Either way, nice try to pidgeon hole me.

But your paying $176 in taxes to your local government. In the meantime, every person who stays at a lodge pays %6 of that to your local government. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. Those $10k a week lodge owners are the ones paying to educate your kids. Look at the L&P budget to tell you as much. Same goes for raw fish tax, that you say the fisheries dont do anything for you. Outside interests have been paying way much more than locals when it comes to operating your community.

Also, what thoughts do you have on the track record of the company that wants tear up your back yard.
Do you know how AA has conducted themselves in Africa and S. America. Dozens die in thier mines annually, thousands are removed from thier traditional lands, thousands more with permanent health problems as a result of thier work in the mines. AA provides nothing to them once they are to sick for work.
They talk about going beyond complaince with Pebble. Well they have said the same thing with thier other mines and they fall well short of thier promises.

May 5, 2008 - 2:32am | CingRed

Well as Meatloaf sang...

Two out of three ain't bad. P&%Febble is a crass name, and you play hockey. As for not being Canadian, I just thought it was odd behavior (would you spell it behaviour?) you consistently spell 'realize' like a Canadian. I didn't pigeon hole you, you're name does that sufficiently.

Biting the hand that feeds you? The tax of 6% is for the room tax (not 6% of the package plan or tour like you state, see L&P code section 6.90.020B), minimum room amount being $67.00 or $4.02 per guest. That's if they even report it, like I mentioned before. I guess that hand isn't feeding very much.

The thing of it is, commercial fishing and mining are not mutually exclusive of one another. Perhaps Rich Outside Lodge Owners (including Jimmy Carter Co & Lower Forty-Eight Co.) and mining are.

I've heard you blame Aids outbreaks, deaths, disease, yada yada yada on AA but this is the United States, we're in the 21st Century, and we have safety laws to comply with. Are you familiar with MSHA? Pretty stringent standards to say the least. Did you know for record keeping purposes, they need to keep all safety records until the life of the company plus 100 years!!! Wow, that's an incredible no? And, MSHA is division of law enforcement, they can come on your property and shut you down if you're not in compliance with the laws and regulations. That's a lot of clout don't you think? The United States is cutting edge and the envy of the world when it comes to safety rules and regulations.

Not to pick on Commercial Fisheries, but I don't think they even have such a good track record concerning safety issues. That is, The Discovery Channel isn't dedicating a show about how deadly American mining is. If you're really concerned about safety issues, maybe you can make more people aware of the safety issues out in the Bay. I know, I've done that before, the things you brave guys do to net fish is sometimes crazy scary! I know you've probably got some whopper stories to tell.

While we're at it, The Discovery Channel could run a show about small plane pilots and transporters. They usually crash at least a plane or two a season, many times tragically with their clientele'. Maybe we should pass legislation so all lodge owner pilots must have the highest level of piloting ability and carry an "ATP" or "ATPL" license?

These minimums include: 1500 hours of flight time and 500 hours of cross-country flight time. Must be 23 years of age, instrument rating, and being of good moral character. Talk about elevating standards!

Pebble has spent a tremendous amount money and resources in compiling these reports. This is a Catch 22 for them, since if they didn't spend the time and money then the naysayers would say that are not doing their due diligence. If they take the high road, which they did, they spent a ton of money to research, then all the naysayers state 'we're being bought off'.

By the way, Pebble is an Alaskan Corporation who are hiring Alaskans. Pretty good track record so far, don't you think? I wish the lodge owners could say the same.

May 5, 2008 - 4:27pm | PuckFebble

where to start

Ah geez,
Well, firstly, Pebble is not an Alaska corporation, it is a front for an English and Canadian company. But dont worry because the Canadians wont be around long. NDM will sell out, they arent a mining company.
And yes I do call AA out on thier issues, because it is very applicable to what AA is promising. Because they told the same things to the people in Africa and Colombia. When thier mines expand, villages are forced literally under the point of a gun to move.
They have poisoned water, and said its alright to drink, they have miners die weekly, with minimal compensation to the families effected. They reap billions in profits worth of western money, but pay thier employees a wage that would not be livable anywhere in America.
So, that $140m they want to spend, comes from the blood of civil wars, the toil of those stricken with scoliosis, and the tears of the loved ones who are left without thier family members and soul breadwinner.
Now, as an Alaskan Native, I dont support doing business with a company who has made billions off the natives in a land that is not thiers, has supported corrupt leadership and payed for the violence they have created. If you think they will do whatever they can get away with there, they will do the same here. I know you are not so as naive to think otherwise.
But I ask you to come on the record, who is your employer? Do you have a current financial stake in this project?

May 5, 2008 - 5:31pm | ebluemink

a chiding message from the blog host

Not that I wouldn't like to know who all these "handles" are, but .... calling out other people to id themselves and their employer without first offering to do the same is not fair play on the blog.

May 5, 2008 - 9:57pm | Sockeyemark

Fair Play ???

Hmmmmm,,, Cingred/pmjusa get to thrash everyone about their handles......must be a girl thing.
I really don't care what everyone is calling themselves, not even above letting them know I'm a commercial fisherman, North Slope worker, Dad, Husband....
It all pertains to the fact that I represent the common Alaskan who is Opposing the Pebble Mine! Period

May 7, 2008 - 12:17am | pmjusa

So it's not about what the released data indicates.

You're just against Pebble because it's a proletariat vs. bourgeoisie thing. (And maybe a little bit of a sexist thing).

O.K.

I can accept that and understand that conclusion. I would never thrash your handle. And I don't think anyone here questions your good intentions or measures their value by your job, your "handle" (a good one), etc.

I just wonder if that's the best way to ensure that your family, and their family, and mine will actually have the same opportunities to enjoy the things we do now in the future. People need economic prosperity in order to be able to even think ecologically.

That's why I'm willing to wait and examine the data and how challenges that you've already mentioned will be addressed. As far as I'm concerned there's not even anything to be opposed to yet besides shutting ourselves off from greater ecological sustainability into the future.

May 7, 2008 - 5:14pm | Sockeyemark

Have to keep looking up definitions from your post,

Getting an education from pmj ( Pamela Marie Jensen )
just a stab in the dark.
I'm all for putting people to work and agree that it helps people make sound decisions, when they are deciding from a pocket that already has money in it.
So from that thought, yes I already have money in my pocket. And I'm making a sound decisions in regards to Pebble mine. There is already a lot of info out there, and I've got some connections to other information.
There is a business already operating in Bristol Bay, commercial and sport fishing, tourism.
And now mining wants to come in the area along with oil and gas. Being from the oil industry myself I really think they can operate soundly in the area.
But with what I know about mining, more than the average Joe. Just there presence is very disruptive, there is just no way around it.
I want some strict rules governing their operation.
They can continue to do there studies, but even that has been a messy operation ( I've flown over it ). I really am amazed they are able to leave the footprint behind that they have so far. Oil companies do all their work in the winter as to not leave a footprint behind.
So from what I've seen and heard so far I'm all for the clean water initiatives, honestly. Yes it will make it hard on mining, you've got a little of my sympathy.
But they just can't go into Bristol Bay and do mining they way they've historically have done in the past.
Ms PMJ , you have to respect the people who do not want their livelihood messed with. This doesn't sound pro development ( generally am ). I do not think the benefits outweigh the risks.
Respectfully, Mark

May 5, 2008 - 5:47am | Sockeyemark

Man, talk about picking the Fly shit out of the pepper

Lets keep it simple here while your Singing Red nonsense. Your twisting the facts to suit your
stand on Pebble, maybe we both are.
I still like to tell people the basic's of Pebble.
It will compromise salmon and water and land.
And if you want there is a clean water initiative
or mining shut down what ever you want to call it
to vote on in August.
And let Alaskans have their say!

KISS Keep it simple stupid

May 5, 2008 - 7:24pm | njalo99

compromise???

a compromise would actually be nice Mark, or a sound understanding of the mining principle's and the water initiative's on both side's would be better for everyone. Unfortunately there are some who take this as a " Us against the world type scenario" which isn't the best either without all the info.

May 3, 2008 - 10:06am | akharvester

State vs. land owner analogy

CingRed,
You have contributed a lot of thoughtful points to this conversation. However, the above analogy falls far short. Yes the state owns the land and has a right to say yes under certain circumstances, the debate here is not about the right to say yes or no, it is what are our standards for mineral development in Bristol Bay going to be? I'm a commercial fishermen so, my concern of course is that the upstream habitat is not put at risk. This means higher standards for water quality/quantity than your average mine site, this is after all the most valuable fishery in our state, major employer, and lot's of other things you already know about what make the fishery world class. The state currently has no local hire standard or mandate so there is no assurance that they "hire local kids". In terms of getting paid, the taxation on mining in AK is minimal compared to oil & gas, fisheries, or any other industry. In terms of DNR monitoring operations - the commissioner himself has commented on how significantly understaffed DNR is and it is well known that the agency does not have the person power to do the job. So, here is what Alaskan's have to talk about:
1) How do we hold them to their promises of local hire?
2) How do we "make more money" or keep money in the state from the mining industry?
3) Does Bristol Bay deserve higher standards of protection than your average mine site?
4) What should those standards be in regards to fish habitat?
5) How in the world will we monitor and enforce environmental standards given our current situation at DNR?

And finally, you seem more intelligent than needing to taunt someone about their spelling so, be professional, stick to the facts, and leave the personal stuff for the kindergardeners.

May 2, 2008 - 6:00pm | miamaarons

bu!!$hit

people live their lives out there without the government's help. Believe me.

May 2, 2008 - 10:02pm | Sockeyemark

Don't you like when they come over and fix all your problems

Bristol bay people have been doing fine for thousands of years without help from carpet baggers and mining companies.
You want to see problems, just wait till all these people get hooked on the Pebble Project money...... then you'll see the fruits of easy money show it's ugly head.
It's already tearing families apart.

May 2, 2008 - 5:53pm | ak_iceman2003

why should industry be brought to rural America?

It is a new phenomenon to expect and demand that industry be brought to rural America; 20, 30 and 100 years ago it was expected that people needed to move to find work. Why should it be any different today? If you can't find work in the fishing industry there is plenty of work in Anchorage; no need to go on welfare.

2 May 2, 2008 - 5:24pm | Sockeyemark

Here it Comes Folks, Data from the Company

that paid 90 million dollars since 2004, do you think the info is going to say they can't do it?
Not!
Guarantee it will say " Nothing we can't mitigate, Dam the Fish full speed ahead!! "
This info is biased towards the companies interest.
Bottom line, Fish and Water will be compromised.
How much are you willing give in exchange for copper
and gold????
Take A Stand!! Give No Ground!!

1 May 2, 2008 - 5:17pm | CingRed

Naysayers meltdown in...

3,2,1

May 5, 2008 - 9:07pm | njalo99

....

BOOM

Search Jobs | Place an employment ad

The Pebble Blog

Archive

Pebble data