adn.com | The Pebble Blog : Pebble's $140 million budget

The Pebble Blog

The gigantic Pebble copper and gold prospect in Southwest Alaska is one of the touchiest topics in Alaska today.

In this blog, I'll track news that is significant or interesting about the Pebble project. I'll also try to generate discussion and information sharing about some of the claims and counterclaims about the project, and mining in general.

Please keep your comments courteous and on topic. If you violate the ADN comment policy, your posts will be deleted.

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About Elizabeth Bluemink ebluemink@adn.com

I've been writing about mining in Alaska since 2004 and without a doubt, it is one of the most interesting topics that I cover at the Daily News. I've been a newspaper reporter for the past 10 years. In the Deep South, I specialized in reporting about environmental conflicts and pollution cleanups. For two years, I covered commercial fishing, mining and logging in Southeast Alaska. In my current job as a Daily News business reporter, I write about mining, tourism, Native corporations and other businesses.

Pebble's $140 million budget

Posted by pebble_blog

Posted: April 21, 2008 - 2:50 pm

Here's a short item from the Associated Press today and here's the longer item published by Northern Dynasty Minerals Ltd. on its Web site.

Several people have already keyed in on the fact that the Pebble Partnership plans to spend over $14 million on its community engagement and public affairs program in 2008.

For comparison, that amount is roughly how much the Alaska Railroad has reaped in annual profits in recent years.

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8 May 12, 2008 - 1:56pm | pmjusa

It might be worth 140 mil

if it helps calm down all the anti-Pebble hysteria. If we dismiss environmental challenges as unsolvable and solutions as unattainable, we conspire to undermine not only precious metals but also the very gift of reason.

May 13, 2008 - 10:10am | rfn

I wouldn't count on it!

We're looking at a degree of fanaticism here that borders on cultism. If the vote goes "the wrong way" look for "monkeywrenching" and imbeciles throwing their children in the path of earth movers.

May 12, 2008 - 11:58pm | Sockeyemark

Everyone seems shortsighted on the REAL GIFT....

And that's the Bristol Bay sockeye run. A true gift that we are so willingly ready to toss aside. I realize the whole run is not at jeopardy here, but just the idea that a portion of it is expendable just amazes me.
Here we are with the only run like it in the WORLD and just because it's huge we all think its OK do away with some of it.
You can build Pebble Mine, but not one river, not one lake, not one smolt, not one fish gets taken away.
And if the clean water initiatives help in making this so, then I'm voting yes this fall.

May 13, 2008 - 3:42am | pmjusa

Look Again.

Actually, the initiatives won’t help make it so. The initiatives are not just anti-mining, but anti-research, anti-solutions, and completely unnecessary. No one wants to harm the fish run. See in the above article links, “a $24.9 million environmental study program to complete the Environmental Baseline Document for the Pebble Project, to support the completion of a pre-feasibility study and undertake ongoing monitoring…” Let's not be swindled by out-of-state environmentalists or in-state special interests.
These pseudo-pro-fishing advocates simply want to ban mining and are willing to ban some of the most costly and promising anadromous stream research ever collected to do so.

May 13, 2008 - 1:53pm | Sockeyemark

Nope, just want to STOP PEBBLE

and clean up the rest of the mining industry. Mining doesn't pay squat to the state compared to the oil and fishing industry. And neither of these two leave behind the mess that mining does.
Leave the ore in the ground and let Bristol Bay sockeye run toxin free forever!!!

May 13, 2008 - 6:09pm | rfn

And while we're at it,

let's leave all the minerals and petroleum in the ground.

Then you can row your unpainted boat and fish with spears made from tree branches. Hooks are made of metal and metal comes from mines. Better make that boat without using nails or screws, though. Those are made of metal and metal comes from mines. And clean and eat 'em with your fingers; no fillet knives or dinner forks. Those are made of metal and metal comes from mines.

Of course you could try learn flint-knapping. Got any flint?

May 13, 2008 - 10:48pm | Sockeyemark

Row,Row Row your boat, gently down the stream

Merrily, merrily life is but a dream!! Knew you'd come to your senses....

May 14, 2008 - 10:27am | rfn

Oh yea.....

Lose the dip net, too. Those hoops are made of metal that comes from mines. The nets are, mostly, made of synthetics that come from petroleum that comes from the ground.

7 April 22, 2008 - 9:52am | AKFlyFishGal

Transparent Spending

The $14 million in community engagement and public affairs is only 10% of the 2008 budget. What about the $61 million to support completion of pre-feasibility studies, the $30 million engineering program for detailed test work and infrastructure studies, or the $25 million environmental studies program? Additionally, the $14 million community engagement budget includes the Pebble Fund for Sustainable Bristol Bay Fisheries and Communities, the 2008 allotment of a $5 million endowment to support community-led initiatives and enhance the fisheries. At least Pebble is transparent in their spending, which is more than can be said of the opposition.

April 22, 2008 - 11:48am | PuckFebble

Lets set aside the $ they

Lets set aside the $ they will spend in the overall operations of thier exploration. That is what it takes to due business.
Now for thier $14m, and the Pebble Fund, so really its not $14million this year. It is $10m. 4million is to be spent in the next 4 years. Now I have asked this question and nobody has been able to give me an answer

Knowing the BB fisheries are already healthy and sustainable. Why do we need a mining company who promises up and down they wont harm fish, to create a fund to make those fish sustainable?

Also, what information they dont give out is how much is being spent directly on lobbying. And more important how much is going to campaign against the clean water iniative? A law that would simply put into law the claims they are already making about thier mine.
So transparency? Hardly. More like bait and switch.

April 23, 2008 - 10:54pm | njalo99

money???

Gee Puck how much are the opponents spending to Stop Pebble?? let's get this All out in the open........

April 24, 2008 - 1:17pm | PuckFebble

I support that as well.

Id like to know as well. I support full disclosure for funding sources. At some point they will have to report thier campaign spending I am pretty sure it is quarterly. Personally I am sick of seeing the ads from both sides.
Literally 2-4ads in a row during the channel two news is way excessive. 4 full page ads in the Bristol Bay Times, it has become a bit to much.

April 24, 2008 - 10:07am | rfn

Now let's think this thing through!

If all the Stop Pebble spending and all the pro-Pebble advertising were to screech to a halt how long could Alaska continue to have a daily newspaper? How many TV stations would go dark?

The longer we can drag this thing out the longer we'll be able to read the comics and enjoy "reality" shows!

Were all the advertising to stop the job loss would be greater than any potential for job loss if all the fish went South and all the minerals turned to sand.

6 April 22, 2008 - 6:54am | coghillkid

Kill The Fish!!!

Poison the rivers and kill the fish, (along with the entire wildlife foodchain). Be just like California, Oregon, and Washington... rape it for money, or tell Pebble to get out and stay out. This is a last stand situation. Ask me about oil spill safeguards, and the Exxon Valdez.

April 22, 2008 - 10:25am | CingRed

The drama

Relax Henny-Penny, the sky isn't falling.

April 22, 2008 - 11:31am | coghillkid

ch-c(h)ingred

Whew, thanks for the chill-pill my man of reason. For a moment there I was thinking poisonous toxins actually do kill. You'll have to excuse me now, I'm off to my new Pebble sponsored sulfuric acid whole health cleansing class. See you there.

5 April 21, 2008 - 6:40pm | woodrich

14 millioin in help?

Will Roger France be as helpful as he was to Charles Taylor? I hope so.

4 April 21, 2008 - 6:26pm | batman2

bristolbay,fishing,mining

diesel prices will probably be 8.00 a gallon or more in bristolbay,the adn says people in the midwest say if the price of wild salmon is too high they will just use farmed salmon, once again if fishing fails the fisherman will ask the goverment for a handout while saying no to devolpment,the eviromentalists do not care about the locals they will not do a damn thing after they shut the area down, if people are crying about it being too expensive to live there with no jobs,theyll say move then! oh well at least the rich "sportsmen" will get to enjoy it!

April 23, 2008 - 10:58pm | njalo99

fisherman???/

fisherman asking for handouts????oh please say it isn't so..... when there will be a good job waiting for them when Pebble comes on line. After all we're just lowly Miners, doesn't take alot of brain cells to be a miner.........LOL But we do pay our own way...... too funny

April 21, 2008 - 6:37pm | PuckFebble

About the locals

I see you come on here and talk about the enviromentalists and how they conflict with the locals.
Well you are incorrect, because most bay residents are against this mine. This mine does nothing for Nushagak river communities. Zero tax revenue. Yet the tailings facility will sit at the headwaters of our drainage.
Is Pebble going to make that diesel cheaper? No.

I wont speak for anyone else, but my views as a bay resident is frankly not anti-development as you seem to think we all are. No, we are against a mine of this scale at that location. Want to run a small scale mine, sure go for it. Want to have a large mine at an area without such critical habitat, go for it. Just not the scale and location of Pebble.

April 28, 2008 - 5:06pm | jokeener

Permanent Fund

You do get this don't you?
But yeah, I'm with you on small-scale commercialism only. I say the fisherman should only be able to use one fishing rod (and no motor) to catch their fish. Fair enough?

April 21, 2008 - 8:40pm | CingRed

Define Locals

It depends on the locals you're refering to. If you're speaking about locals around the Iliamna region they are overwhelmingly for sensible development, and because of their proximity to the operation they have the most risk and reward for development. (Of course, this excludes the wealthy lodge owners and their outside clientèle, but then again they don't hire anyone locally do they). The further you are from the region the less support Pebble has.

Do you approve Shell Oils plan for drilling in Bristol Bay to help bring jobs and lower diesel?

It doesn't much matter though, unfortunately traditional commercial fishing will be dead as we know it if the price of gas continues to escalate. It will become too uneconomical to harvest fish. Have you considered co-ops like they're doing on the chain? Seems like a viable solution.

April 22, 2008 - 11:26am | PuckFebble

Hi Cing Red

A few things, I will try and cover. As for offshore O&G, that is something I am undecided on at this point. I have questions about spill response in ice conditions. But there are other examples of offshore working well.
The North Sea in Europe is an example, and the fact they didnt have spills in the gulf after Katrina despite a few rigs sustaining heavy damage. I guess the point being is that I am not anti-development, I am anti-pebble.
As for Co-ops and such, I support development and improvement in the fisheries. Of which considerable improvements have begun since I started fishing in 97.
Including way more slushbags and RSW. Brailer weight limits, more product is being fresh frozen now more than ever. I will agree that the price of fuel is a major concern. But again, Pebble doesnt change that a bit.
As for support among bay residents. There has not been a lot of accurate polling on the issue. The one that was conducted I think 2 years ago, targeted directly at bay residents was %71 opposed, %9 for and %20 undecided. Then one can look at the testimony offered by bay residents during the HB 147 hearings. In the Iliamna region it was roughly %55-45 in favor of the bill.
%60-40 against in Naknek, and much higher in Dillingham. To the tune of %80 or so. Overall based on the testimony offered baywide it was a 2-1margin in support of HB-134 and against Pebble.
As for the lodge owners, I wish there were more locally owned lodges. I dont see why there arent a bunch more owned by the corps around the bay. It has been largely a missed opportunity. But keep in mind that those lodge owners, especially the ones in L&P wouldnt pay any property tax as they do now if Pebble is built. So it would help them.
I think the real problem with Pebble is the divisiveness it has caused. Families have been split, communities divided and a growing rift between the west and east sides of the bay. This is the first casualty of the mine. The social impact of such a controversial project is not healthy to this point. Bay residents I am afraid, are falling victim to the classic divide and conquer tactics that imperical entities practice.
I hope this explains things well. But any other questions you got I will do my best. Have a nice day.

April 23, 2008 - 11:04pm | njalo99

LOL

I like that, casualties of the mine.....there is NO MINE yet you pin head........... there won't ever be a mine if all this B.S. keeps up. But a company willing to spend 140 MIlllion, to develope a PLAN, to Build a Mine, well that's a lot of money to just toss around for just a mine

May 3, 2008 - 10:14pm | Sockeyemark

And there NEVER WILL BE A MINE!!!!

Glad you guys are finally getting the POINT.......NO PEBBLE MINE......You've got the POINT, though your not too sharp with your HEAD

May 5, 2008 - 1:12pm | rfn

Absolutely!

We must do our all to keep the world copper shortage alive and prices up!

How else can our gang population eke out a living if it's no longer profitable for them to tear the copper plumbing out of houses and sell it?

April 21, 2008 - 10:38pm | Tdanterry

Iliamna Locals

CingRed I am an outsider, and have been researching Alaska for quite a few months. The reason is I will be moving to Alaska in the near future. Your article tells me you are a person with sharp mind, and a BIG HEART I for one, have to agree with you. The lower 48 are in some ways in a bad state as well, with the higher fuel prices higher food prices. A lot of jobs cutting back, with alot of people lossing their homes. Then we also have to look at our military situation over seas. Things might get worse as time goes on, I pray that things will get better. As you pointed out there are good sides to the future of Iliana with the sensible development of the mine. I for one know what it is like to loose the lively hood because of a situation that was out of my control.

With the fuel prices going up, it is sad for me to hear that a fishing village may loose their lively hood because of higher fuel prices. The person was not looking at both sides of the situation. He was making a one sided view, I see this quite often in everyday living. At times I wonder why don't the person take the situation apart and look at both sides.

April 22, 2008 - 8:42am | coghillkid

Oh brother,

give me a break. Stay down there, please.

3 April 21, 2008 - 5:38pm | g_carpenter

disclosure

the industries that come into state all brag about how many jobs they will create. these companies should be required to post yearly how many CITIZENS they employ and how many from out of state. be interesting to see how many from oklahoma, texas, wyoming will be doing the 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off at home in lower 48 after being hired at pebble. original pipeline was 78-22 out vs in.

a mine, a terrible thing of waste.

2 April 21, 2008 - 4:12pm | PuckFebble

another thinly veiled buyoff

Where is the relevance to the Alaska RR with Pebble?
Also, how come in the original post it wasnt mentioned from the NDM website what else they say the $14.8m is for.
"public education and project support"

Now it makes me wonder, why if they have the best scientists and engineers and will built the first pit mine to not have any impact outside its boundries in the world, why they need all of this stakeholder relations? Why do we need a "sustainable fisheries fund" the fisheries are already sustainable.
Maybe they should know from all thier "stakeholder engagement" that the residents of Bristol Bay arent that cheap and see right through these various iniatives.

I wonder how much of this "public education and project support" money is going to fight the clean water iniative?

April 21, 2008 - 10:37pm | pmjusa

Without stakeholder relations,

and with even the best scientists and engineers in the world, most of the publicity around the mine would be from those who want it shut down before those experts have done their job. Hopefully, much of the public education and project support money will help to reveal to many the mining shutdown aspects of the "clean water initiatives."

April 21, 2008 - 4:27pm | Syrin

Pebble Project is a GOOD THING for Alaska

One of the world's most important mineral discoveries has been made in southwest Alaska. Under the direction of The Pebble Partnership, it has the potential to become a world-class mine that will benefit all Alaskans for generations to come.

Pebble will protect and respect all of Alaska's natural resources

April 21, 2008 - 4:35pm | PuckFebble

Ive seen the propaganda

But thanks anyways. How do you figure it can be a world class mine? Because NDM has built one? Or how about A.A. Plc? Give me one of thier world class mines.

The fact of the matter is neither company has experience in operating mines in this sort of enviroment.

Did AA tell that to the villagers in Africa before they moved thier communities, damaged the enviroment, provide horrible conditions for thier workers? Did they tell that to the familes of the dozens of miners that die in thier operations annually?

April 21, 2008 - 6:27pm | jabrusii

So you know quite a bit

So you know quite a bit about South African law?

April 21, 2008 - 6:58pm | PuckFebble

Not an expert

I dont claim to be an expert or scholar on SA law. I have done a fair amount of research. Compared to any western country thier laws are quite lax especially concerning mineral development. But are better than other African countries. Such as the Congo and Botswana.
Thier system has been quite slow in regards to this.
The reason I mention thier African operations, and they are in quite a few other countries besides RSA.
http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2008/03/mining-company-anglo-american-acting.html
I would encourage you and anyone to else who is interested, to watch this video. The promises that A.A. told them were quite similar to what we are hearing about Pebble. Clean enviroment, protection of ancestoral lands and good working enviroments.
In the meantime, 100,000 mine workers have scoliosis, 20,000 have been moved to less productive farm grounds, and less clean water. Massive outbreaks of HIV among thier workforce, and those who refused to leave thier lands were attacked by police with deadly force.

This is on top of the literally dozens of miners who are killed in thier operations [u]Annually[/u].

Now I am not suggesting that they will provide conditions similar as they have created in Africa. But they told those people the same thing and they didnt come through. I as an Alaskan, and Bristol Bay resident, a direct stake holder in this project am not interested in doing business with a company that has acted in this manner.

April 21, 2008 - 6:25pm | jabrusii

April 21, 2008 - 5:56pm | flabbyface

propaganda

Speaking of propaganda, How about those TV ads where at the end the guy says if pebble goes in WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!

Talk about propaganda!

April 21, 2008 - 6:08pm | PuckFebble

Which Ad?

I am going to assume you are exaggerating.
How about the ads that say clean water will shut down existing mines. That is categorically false.
If there is an ad that says that, I would encourage you to let us all know which group was responsible for its content.

1 April 21, 2008 - 4:08pm | Sockeyemark

This will break the fabric of Alaska

People that take hand outs will eventually believe they are entitled to it. No longer will hard work be rewarded with the fruits of your labor.
Guess everyone's got a price, what's yours?
I'm most surprised by Glen Alsworth, Dave Wilder I figured they would for sure be against Pebble Mine. But we all have a price I guess....
History is happening folks, the last great salmon run will be history. What will be your part of history?

April 21, 2008 - 6:01pm | truthseeker

well mr. sockeye...............

my part will be waiting to see what their actual development plan is and then judging from there. Doesn't this make a lot more sense than making unsubstantiated remarks like "the last great salmon run will be history."

Being part of mass hysteria isn't going to contribute to the discussion of pebble.

April 21, 2008 - 10:57pm | pmjusa

People don't think logically

when there's a gun to their head. They've been hammered with how Pebble will take away their way of life for so long now. Most of the negative distortions about Pebble are not out and out lies, but at the same time are extremely misleading.
I'm sorry sockeye feels so threatened. I'm not sorry for those that have so wildly distorted this issue that many others feel the same as he does. I witnessed anti-miners from Homer begin their attacks myself at Lake Aleknagik near Dillingham two years ago. Professional fear-mongerers were at it then and will probably not let up until there isn't anything they can gain from it.

April 21, 2008 - 7:32pm | Sockeyemark

There has never been a mine of this size

In such a sensitive habitat. I'm certain that with their 140 million they will come back with a plan that says they can do it without harm to the fishery.
The real question will be at that time is, will it be worth the risk.
History or not, the GOLD MINE swims in RED every year.

My vote will go towards salmon not gold.

No hysteria here, just not flexable on this one.

Like my friend Sarah Palin said during her election

TAKE A STAND!!!!!!!

April 24, 2008 - 9:21pm | njalo99

lol

I guess Sockeye your one of the 13 fisherman left in BB trying to make a living, let me know how that goes

April 25, 2008 - 4:13pm | Sockeyemark

Been fishing there for 28 years and going strong

It's been a great way to make a living; I've got three sons who are planning on getting into the fishery also.
Many more generations will ply the waters of Bristol Bay to make a living “If we let them “.

April 25, 2008 - 8:42am | byankee

Out of date

99 you are a little out of date relative to BB fishermen having trouble making a living. You might want to look at permit values to get a more up-to-date outlook.
While prices for salmon were a problem for a bit, the problems with farmed salmon have given wild fish a shot in the arm and the outlook for prices this year are better even due to West coast salmon problems.
Since the BB fishery takes at most 2 months, many of those fishermen do other things along with fishing during the other 10 months. If any of them cannot make a living in the current environment, it is not the fault of the BB fishery.

April 25, 2008 - 8:31am | demorgan33

Be careful

I guess I'm one of the 13 remaining fishermen trying to make a living in Bristol Bay, and I sure take offense to your flippant attitude. I don't know what you do to support your family, but I'm sure if anything threatened to displace your source of income you would want to ask a few questions and get some honest answers. The mine with it's proposed location does just that, it threatens the spawning grounds for a rarity in this world, a renewable resource. I personally am not opposed to mining or development in Alaska, where I have spent my life, but I am opposed to the Pebble Project. The track record of the companies that are involved is anything but stellar and it's sad to see that some are falling for the same tactics that have served these snake oil salesmen in third world countries. Hopefully people wake up and take a stand to not trade a resource that has built and supported this region for generations for a short-term windfall that will leave us with nothing but a mess to clean and memories of a once great industry. Please learn more before you make any decisions on this mine.

April 25, 2008 - 6:42pm | Sockeyemark

Right On

lets keep bristol bay a healthy way to make a living....

April 21, 2008 - 9:45pm | CingRed

Kennecott!

Was the biggest mine of its time, totally unfettered by regulation (I'm sure poisons poured directly into the watershed) and its located in an incredibly sensitive region, yet the COPPER river flows and the wildlife is healthy. It's amazing how resilient mother Earth is! The Copper River reds are coveted worldwide, even more so than Bristol Bay reds, and the mine is a historical landmark and park for tourists throughout the world to view. Who would have thunk it!

Give Pebble there due diligence to develop a plan.

Personally, I'm optimistic that with today's water purification processes, mining techniques, and EPA standards mining can done with little impact to the area. Who knows, in another 50 years the area may become the next tourist attraction for locals to show off.

April 22, 2008 - 7:35am | Sockeyemark

Kennecott was quite different than Pebble

The ore at Kennecott was in chunks ( for lack of better term ) while Pebbles ore is in fine particles. Also the rock in which Pebble lays is sulfuric, not the case with Kennecott. So to trying to compare the two mines is like apples and oranges.
Here's a solution a friend of mine thought of: have the discharge water of the mine supply water to the camps of the people who will work the mine! Bet it gets pretty clean then!!

April 22, 2008 - 10:23am | CingRed

Comparision

Closer to Fuji v. Red Delicious. They share more similairaties than differences.

Regardless, you have no answer to the poisons dumped into the watershed at that time weighed against today's fantastic Copper River salmon run.

The same is true with LaTouche and Sutton mining days. Mining didn't kill off PWS & Cook Inlet salmon run. Mind you, that was with 1910 technology and NO regulations for mining.

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