The Pebble Blog

The gigantic Pebble copper and gold prospect in Southwest Alaska is one of the touchiest topics in Alaska today.

In this blog, I'll track news that is significant or interesting about the Pebble project. I'll also try to generate discussion and information sharing about some of the claims and counterclaims about the project, and mining in general.

Please keep your comments courteous and on topic. If you violate the ADN comment policy, your posts will be deleted.

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About Elizabeth Bluemink ebluemink@adn.com

I've been writing about mining in Alaska since 2004 and without a doubt, it is one of the most interesting topics that I cover at the Daily News. I've been a newspaper reporter for the past 10 years. In the Deep South, I specialized in reporting about environmental conflicts and pollution cleanups. For two years, I covered commercial fishing, mining and logging in Southeast Alaska. In my current job as a Daily News business reporter, I write about mining, tourism, Native corporations and other businesses.


Want to vote? - 7/24/2008 11:17 am

Ad Dollars, disclosed - 7/23/2008 6:48 pm

ADFG deputy goes to work for Pebble - 7/21/2008 11:41 am

Mining news roundup, Part 1 - 7/16/2008 4:18 pm

New groundwater reports - 7/10/2008 5:05 pm

Fishing Academy - 7/9/2008 5:25 pm

Drilling questions - 7/7/2008 3:15 pm

Tailings Dam Failures, Part 2 - 7/7/2008 9:46 am

Tailings Dam failures, Part 1 - 7/3/2008 2:15 pm

Movies, movies, movies - 7/1/2008 2:02 pm

Anglo & Zimbabwe (Updated) - 6/25/2008 10:59 am

More Pebble data - 6/24/2008 12:29 pm

Anglo American: A takeover target? - 6/16/2008 11:27 am

Hot off the press - 6/11/2008 3:31 pm

Bristol Bay history - 6/10/2008 11:49 am

Court dismisses anti-Pebble initiative - 6/9/2008 1:05 pm

A legislative legal opinion on Clean Water 3/Ballot Measure 4 - 6/5/2008 5:14 pm

More on the Clean Water Initiatives - 6/4/2008 5:09 pm

More about clean water - 6/3/2008 6:11 pm

Water discharges at Rock Creek Mine - 6/2/2008 5:26 pm

Profile of Anglo American chief - 5/29/2008 12:29 pm

Miners still nervous about initiatives - 5/23/2008 6:36 pm

Tailings and earthquakes, Part 2

I got a little busy at the end of last week and never got around to posting the sequel to my first entry about mine tailings and quakes.

As I said in the first entry, plenty of people seem to be interested in this topic.

One of them is Dr. Bretwood "Hig" Higman, part of the dynamic duo trekking through the Bristol Bay region right now. They are drawing close to completing their epic adventure of walking, rafting and skiing from Seattle to Unimak Island.

Hig, a geologist, recently e-mailed me a letter that he sent to the state's dam safety officer about a fault near the Pebble site, the Lake Clark Fault, which has not been studied in much depth and could pass within a few miles of the project.

For all anyone knows, the fault may run under the project's proposed dams or other structures, Hig warns.

Out of all the faults in Alaska, the Castle Mountain Fault could create the most severe ground shaking at the Pebble site, according to consultants for Northern Dynasty Minerals Ltd.

Hig basically suggests that the state require additional study of the Lake Clark Fault (a continuation of the Castle Mountain fault) and that the state require that the dams that hold back rock waste be built to a higher standard.

"The uncertainty in the geology means that the worst case scenario is poorly known and thus possibly very bad," Hig wrote to me in an e-mail.

I called the state's dam safety officer a week or two ago about Hig's letter.

I never got a response from the dam safety officer but I did get a response from the chief spokesman from the Pebble Partnership.

Sean Magee, the spokesman, sent a "seismic backgrounder" on the information that the companies have collected so far and what they plan to do to address safety. The backgrounder is about 18 months old. In response to Hig's letter, Magee said that it is true that the Castle Mountain/Lake Clark Fault may run closer to the Pebble site than previously reported.

He also said:

* The potential ground acceleration of this continuation of the Castle Mountain Fault has not yet been determined. It's not clear if it will be greater than, equal to or less than that associated with the known Castle Mountain Fault.
* To date, we are unaware of any movement along this fault over the past 10,000 years. For this and other reasons, the USGS defines the area surrounding Pebble as having low overall seismic hazard.
* It is still our intent to go beyond mere compliance with environmental/engineering standards to design and build tailings embankments and other mine facilities at Pebble that will withstand seismic events larger than could actually occur.

Until the day that I actually write a story on the topic, I'm warehousing a few detailed reports on tailings dam failures that have occurred in the past.

I'm attaching one of those reports and Pebble's seismic backgrounder for folks who want to read a little more about it.


AttachmentSize
Pebble_Seismic_risk.pdf973.31 KB
tailings_stewardship.pdf1.15 MB

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  2     April 12, 2008 - 10:04pm | Hig

Pebble seismic risk

The main scientific point of my letter is quite simple. The initial publications (yes, not their final plan) that NDM/PLP have released ignored recent work on the fault that likely runs closest to their site. In those documents they optimistically assume the fault is further away than current science suggests. However, the real position of the fault is not known, nor is its activity. So more work (including on-the-ground geology) is needed before the hazard can be determined. If no other work is done, they would be forced to assume the worst-case, that the fault runs through their facilities.

Whether or not they have a final plan is irrelevent, this is a basic question about the geology of the region. It should be a part of their baseline studies, and of the constraints they put on their engineering plan.

As far as questions about my impartiality and the relevence of my experience... I hardly think it matters, but I did grow up in Alaska (in Seldovia, from 8 months old until I headed to college... I've returned for some part of every year since and moved here permanently again when my wife and I paddled into the state in September.) I'm not impartial... good luck finding someone who is.

However, I worked hard to explain just the science in my letter to the Dam Safety Office, and these issues have nothing to do with my opinion on whether the project should go through. My dissertation focused on geologic hazards. I've read the meager research that exists on faulting in the Pebble area, and talked with most of the government geologists who work on hazards in Alaska to see if there are gaps in my understanding. For example, Rod Combellick (AK DNR) said:

"I don’t see anything out of line in your letter. It’s all reasonable and of course the seismic hazard must be evaluated and properly designed for."

-Hig (Bretwood Higman, PhD in Earth and Space Sciences from the University of Washington, Seattle.)

  1     March 31, 2008 - 1:31pm | ThorZone

Not So Fast

I met Dr. Bretwood "Hig" Higman once. He was up here a few years ago with his girl friend and my cousin to hike from Nebesna to Chitna and then run the Copper River to Cordova in these little one man backpack rafts. My wife and I drove the whole bunch from Anchorage to Nebesna. We spent the whole trip talking about Alaska and the many issues we were facing as a state at the time as well as learning about their respective fields of study.

I remember him as a pretty nice guy, but naive about how things worked here. Anyway, while I think he is a pretty smart guy, I do no think he has put much time into researching the specifics of seismic problems in the Pebble area, and based on my conversations with him during our 6 plus hour car ride to Nebesna, I am not sure he has an open mind about development projects in general.

What most people fail to grasp is at this point, there is no plan on how Pebble will be developed. There is all kinds of talk about all kinds of nightmare scenarios including a huge dam filled with an endless list of dangerous chemicals that will kill everything from Bethel to Dutch Harbor to Cordova when the dam breaks. The facts are very different from the talk coming from the environmental community.

If there is a dam built, it will not be full of water. It will be mostly full of tailings from the mine and these tailings will be covered with a layer of water. Let’s say for the purpose of illustration, if the dam is 100 feet high, probably 80 feet of that will be just dirt and rocks with a layer of water only 20 feet deep. It won’t be a lake 100 feet deep full of toxic waste just waiting to be released on the people of Bristol Bay. Even if there was a huge problem, according to Dept. of Fish & Game studies done to date, the drainage around Pebble only supports around 1% of the Bristol Bay fishery. I am not saying it would be OK for Pebble to pollute the water in the area, there are laws against that sort of thing, but it clearly won’t have a meaningful role in any fish declines in the Bristol Bay fisheries.

It seems to me that all the uproar about Pebble is way too early since there is not a mining plan to shoot at yet. The environmental community needs to take a deep breath and wait until the specific plans are released by who ever it is that will eventually apply for permits to develop the mine and make comments dealing specifically with the mine plan. Jumping up and down about how a mining operation might disturb the area without first knowing what the mine will be doing doesn't do anyone any good.

  April 3, 2008 - 9:29am | markaniver

Do you really think there is NO plan in the books for Pebble

Open pit mining is not rocket science, there is a plan and it's ongoing as we speak. The first thing they have to do is lower the ground water in the mountains that they want to remove. They will pump water out at the rate of 178 million gallon a day; yes it will get pumped to Lake Illiamna. When they start lowering the water table the whole area will start to get disrupted. Upper and lower Talarik Rivers disappear. Frying Pan lake gets removed also a salmon producing river.
And if you believe the Worlds largest open pit mine to have a 100 foot high settling pond, then your not well informed. The area is sulfur bearing rock, so yes the settling ponds turn sulfuric.
The other plan that is well in effect is to pump millions of dollars to feed the area and get them eating out of their hand. In the meantime tell them they are working on a plan (lull you to sleep) then when they come in it will be like taking candy from a baby. Just give me my candy back and you can do what ever you want>>>.

Has worked before, sounds like it's working for you...

  April 6, 2008 - 2:14pm | ThorZone

Yes..There really is no plan at this time

They haven't found all the edges of the mineral body yet. The way the known resource is laid out they do not know if it will be an under ground operation such as Green Creek or an open pit like Fort Knox or if it will be a combination of the two.

As for pumping out "178 million gallon a day" where do you come up with that? Does the drilling operator possess a such a permit? Would you care to site your source for this information? I don't know for certian, but I don't think your claim is factual.

  April 2, 2008 - 3:57pm | haffagascan

Ground Truth Trekking/Alaska Trekking

Your comments are appreciated, Thor.

I met Hig and Erin about 7 years ago, and my impression then is as it is now, very similar to yours. I get the impression that Hig believes his journeys into "our" country somehow qualifies him as an expert on the area, and his public comments attest to that. Unfortuntely, this is probably not the forum in which to air those observations, as the bias tends to lean very much toward organizations like GTT/AK.

Still, it was refreshing to read your comment.

Thank you

  April 6, 2008 - 2:07pm | ThorZone

You are Welcome!

My Pleasure.

  April 1, 2008 - 9:41am | byankee

A couple of suggestions

Thorzone, you seem to be doing what you are accusing the environmental community of doing-namely describing something before the plan is out (your illustration of the potential dam). Nice illustration by the way, however I noticed that while you did describe the depth of the water, you neglected any reference to the size of the lake potentially behind the dam. Also, you might notice that a lot of the worry is from commercial fishermen who might not like being lumped into the "environmental community".
As to your "attacking the messenger" comments, they are somewhat dated suggesting that "Hig" might have "had" less than an open mind on development projects. About his being naive about how things worked up here, perhaps you could enlighten us all about how these things "work up here". Thanks in advance.

  March 31, 2008 - 2:41pm | ebluemink

just asking....

Do you have any insight yourself about the specifics of seismic problems in the Pebble area?
Also for people who don't have time to read the letter:
Hig made no comment about toxic nightmares from a dam failure.
I don't know if he's made that claim in the past - certainly others have. Maybe he'll jump on the blog at some point and let us know what he thinks about that. He's mentioned to me that there have been some questionable statements from "both sides" on this topic.
In the letter, he mainly asked for more study of the Lake Clark fault, or extra layers of safeguards for the dam structures if no one ponies up for more study to evaluate it.