Pulled from another thread to increase accessability to the one or two who might actually be interested:
YOGI--I'll try to filter out the excreta and stick to the salient points, in order to save time and space...
...with respect to comparisons, you miss the point (I suspect deliberately).
BOOBOO--I didnt miss the point at all. You attempt to explain it away by claiming it is "at least a MEANS rather than an END", but in doing so you only confirm what I said. You use most any topic as an excuse to badmouth those you dont like nor agree with. Would you like ME to go back in YOUR posts and produce the MANY examples of this?
YOGI--You can't change my MOTIVES behind what I post simply by substituting "motives" you find acceptable--(ie in keeping with your warped view of who I am)--and then attributing 'em to me. For future reference, that's called "erecting a straw-man argument."
BOOBOO--If you directed your venomous attacks at only those who actually display out and out hypocricy, I would support you 100%. But you treat even those who show themselves to be intellectually honest in the same manner.
YOGI--In light of the degree of PERSONAL umbrage exhibited in your posts, I'm tempted to say (1) You give yourself too much credit in the "intellectual honesty" department, and (2) "Methinks thou dost protest too much." What the hell, I'll yield to temptation here...
BOOBOO--One can only conclude that you look down upon anyone who you determine to be your political or moral enemy. You routinely label people on this forum as your enemy. You are the only one on this forum who does this.
YOGI--WRONG. Only people whom I've referred to as ENEMIES are those open, unrepentant RACISTS who attack people for who they ARE. AND, since the people they choose to ATTACK include many of my loved ones, they are indeed classified as enemies. You'd do the same if you were in my boat.
To the best of my recollection, I've come to this conclusion concerning exactly TWO posters. I'm NOT gonna wait till the racist a**holes get to the point where they can get away with loading up the CATTLE CARS. I'm gonna stand against such a**holes if I'm the only one doing it, as long as I'm breathing. You don't like it, feel free not to read my posts.
BOOBOO--This is just another example of you minimizing one thing in order to put emphasis on the other. No rational person who knows a thing about American history would argue the point. The difference is that some choose to either hang on to the past or they still live it
YOGI--Exactly how did I CHOSE for my family to live said "past"? If the injustices of the past HAVEN'T BEEN ELIMINATED, they're still PRESENT and hence not PAST.
BOOBOO--while others recognize that we have come a long way in this country toward becoming color blind.
YOGI--The theme of my initial post (concerning our recent presidential election) stated precisely that. And the context provided of my and my families' personal experience in this regard, beginning with the "PAST" you'd prefer to FORGET right up to about six months ago was merely ONE FAMILY'S experiences demonstrating how far we have yet to go. Pretending it's all in the "PAST" is convenient for some, but not really productive. I for one can't afford the luxury of such "convenience". Perhaps you can. Good for you.
BOOBOO--The biggest culprits in hindering this positive change are the race-baiters such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.
YOGI--As obnoxious as those two cretins are, they're not the main problem. The primary reason this kind of sickness persists is because so many people in this country wanna pretend it no longer DOES.
And I got news for ya--with the likes of the manly-woman Anne Coulter screaming "rag-head!" from her podiums, Jackson and Sharpton are by NO MEANS the only two "race-baiters" around.
BOOBOO--I have heard of people denouncing their citizenship, or changind political parties, or changing religions, but until you had never seen one denounce their color.
YOGI--You weren't paying attention when you read my initial post. The racists used to call my uncle a "race-traitor" for publicly supporting Dr. King. Soooooooo, exactly WHY have you presumed to call ME the same? (Admittedly you're using different terminology, but the idea's the same).
Hey, I'm not prejudiced--some of my best friends are "white". Plus my mom, brothers, sisters, various cousins, ex-fiance' to whom I'm still real close, my late and sorely missed grandparents, etc etc. My kids are at least HALF white. I love that half, too...
So exactly WHY do you claim I'm "anti-white"? Because I would defend those of my family who aren't? Get over it.
BOOBOO--I have a desire to gain a better understanding of Muslims and their faith
YOGI--Sure coulda fooled ME. Try ASKING QUESTIONS next time.
BOOBOO--but YOUR example supports the idea that many Americans have that Muslims hate Whites and Christians. And not just the ones that happen to be on the extreme end of the spectrum, but ALL of them.
YOGI--Zat so? Kindly ELABORATE why you feel ALL Muslims are like ME, or all ANYBODY is like ONE individual. Let's see...isn't that what we call "stereotyping", Boo? But hey, I thought you said we've made so much PROGRESS past that sorta thing!
BOOBOO--And being that a great many Christians are conservative and a great many Conservatives are White, it's understandable that you would lump them all together and hate them all equally.
YOGI--the ol' "ASSUME" makes an ASS of U and ME syndrome, but in this case it just makes an ASS of U. Where'd you come up with the idea that I'm a "liberal"? Let's go down the list, shall we? On the basis of my Scripture I'm opposed to abortion-on-demand, although abortion is not forbidden outright in my faith. I'm opposed to gun-control, and was formerly a member of the IRA until they endorsed Reagan for president. I don't support state recognition of homosexual couplings--drawing one's bedroom shades is, in my view, all that's needed to ensure accomodation of such "alternate lifestyles". I believe the death penalty is appropriate for some crimes. Such as war-crimes. I'm not a moral relativist--I believe there are independently-existing truths. I believe in the God of Abraham (alayhis-Salaam), and that, for me and mine, His Laws take precedence over man's laws at all times and places. Did I leave anything out, Boo?
BOOBOO--The difference between us is that it appears that you only see what you wish to see... what you look for.
YOGI--that's funny, I was gonna say the same about you. When it comes down to it, I count exactly THREE posters in here who have EVER admitted they were wrong about ANYTHING. You ain't one of 'em.
Said posters are: Slope, MeAgain, and myself. There are others, of course, whom I have no doubt would do the same given the opportunity or need. Phantom menace is never wrong, so she doesn't have to.
BOOBOO--You claim that it is so ONE-SIDED around here, when there are but two or three who could be considered extremists on the right. I have a sneaky suspicion that all you would need is one, to justify your tirade against your political and religious "enemies".
YOGI--perhaps you haven't been paying attention. I joined this forum 8/13/08, after ADN published a letter-to-the-editor from me. I was attacked on all sides. Reviled for no other reason than my chosen faith by many. Things have improved over time. I've made friends, have given and received respect, and some of the more egregious a**holes have apparently left the building, as they haven't been heard from for awhile.
And I didn't "accuse" you--I ASKED, and asked you to reflect on what you said. Shall I go back and dig up the relevant statements from your post?
BOOBOO--Yes. Bring it.
BOOBOO--By your logic we should give 80% of the country back to the Indians. Where should we all go?
YOGI--I've always had the impression that you were a Christian (sue me if I'm wrong). Perhaps you recall that your Scripture (as does mine) states that NATIONS will be held accountable for their crimes when we face the Day of Judgment. Sodom and Gomorrah come to mind.
My beloved Prophet (Saala Allahu alayhi wa Ah'liihi wa Salaam) admonished that only those who repented of, and stood up and OPPOSED their nations' crime, would not be held accountable. He also said that sincere repentance consists of three parts:
(1) TRULY regretting and feeling sorry for the sin/transgression/injustice
(2) Sincerely resolving not to repeat it
(3) And, as much as possible, undoing the harm that was caused, including making reparations.
Apparently Kevin Rudd, Prime Minister-elect of Australia, understood the concept, as he's taken the first step with respect to his own nation's crimes. Despite howls of outrage and denial from those you would recognize as "white Christian conservatives" (and Jesus, alayhis-Salam would probably refer to as "munafiqiin"--hypocrites), one of PM Rudd's first official acts was to issue a formal apology to the Aboriginal people for their mistreatment by more recent settlers.
So your specious argument doesn't hold water. When the US applied "legal" jurisdiction to its recently stolen Mexican territories, entire villages who had inhabited land in what today are many of our national parks were unjustly and illegally DEPORTED to more southerly Mexican states because the US refused to recognize COMMUNITY OWNERSHIP of the land on which those villages sat (this was recognized in Mexican law).
At least, that was the excuse that was used. Just another case of criminals using "legality" as a club to get their own way.
BOOBOO--I dont expect you to take me serious. Afterall, Hajji has the only valid perspective on any and every possible issue.
YOGI--Hey, I don't take MYSELF seriously. Why should you be any different?
BOOBOO--Live in the past if you wish.
YOGI--Live in DENIAL if you wish. If it's ever made the 51st state, you'll qualify for governor. And if you don't take seriously anything else I say, accept this: I wish WITH ALL MY HEART that the injustices about which you refuse to "feel guilty" WERE in the past. I can assure you, if that was truly the case, I'd NEVER go there. And I don't need your so-called "guilt".
BOOBOO--Why dont you show me even one example of a "People" in history who did not take others lands or otherwise invade or perpetrate injustices upon another "People". Until you do so I will not take YOU seriously. LOL
YOGI--LOL right back atcha Hoss. Were not YOU the one who was accusing me of trying to DISTRACT attention away from one set of crimes by focusing on those perpetrated by another faction?
Sooooooooo...because the Japanese usurped the archipelago they currently inhabit from the 'Ainu, or the Angles and the Saxons wiped out the original inhabitants of the British Isles south of Scotland, or the Tutsi and Hutu have shown themselves to be real a**holes in dealing with one another, this absolves us of any responsibility for attempting to redress our own nation's injustices?
BOOBOO--Before I started calling it a "crime", I looked at the laws of the land regarding immigration into this country. Simply wishing it werent acrime, doesnt make it legal. Respect for the law is essential to maintaining a civil society.
YOGI--My point EXACTLY
And just in case you're wondering, I think OJ was guilty as hell. Thank Mark Furman for flipping the case for him and gaining his aquittal. After all, he admitted on tape that he routinely planted evidence on black suspects. That's ALL the jury needed to hear.
BOOBOO--NO. I wasnt wondering. But I agree he was guilty... and thanks to that f-ing White guy, the Black guy got away with it. Right?
YOGI--a lil sensitive are ya, Hoss? By all means, FEEL FREE to DISPROVE my previous statement, or prove that I was LYING. Don't blame ME if you don't like the conclusion you're forced to draw by the FACTS.