October 5, 2007 - 12:40am | drdrmann

Crab discards

I've fishing the last 20 years in the Bering Sea for King crab and we put every legal crab in the tank until the first rationalized season, unless they were weak and could possibly die in the live tank. Starting in 2005, we were told by the processors to bring in clean crab or we would be penalized in price. Our first load (70,000 lbs) of rationalized crab came to the dock and were of the best quality we had ever delivered in the last 18 years. I watched the grading, 1/3 of our crab were graded not up to snuff of which we were given $1.00 a lb less for our crab. Another 1/3 were huge jumbo crab of which they Japanese technicians told the plant workers to bring these pristine crabs over to the other processing room to package them in special 2 section packs. The other 1/3 of the crab were graded as average. Why didn't we receive more for our jumbos, and why did we receive less for the lower graded crab? Well, since Ted Stevens ran the crab ratz rider through Congress without a even one committee meeting, viola, IPQs gave us price fixing with 90% closed markets for our crab.

Oh, back to discards. My estimates of discarded legal crab for year 2005 for our vessel was between 7-12 crab per pot pull. In 2006, we were shown pictures of what the processor wanted brought to the dock for a second year in a row. Though, many vessels declared they didn't highgrade last year, I have my doubts. We discarded 10-12 legal dirty crab on an average for every pot pull in 2006. This year we were lucky and get to take an observer, now we can keep every legal crab that won't die in the tank. The true stewards of the fishery, the in deck fishermen were not the culprits in the first place, as we want every legal crab landed on the dock. The processors with their delivery and market controls are the ones demanding only clean crab, and this is only possible with IPQs, and we can thank, Ted Stevens, the NPFMC, Arnie Thompson, the Sec of Commerce, & all of the seafood processors that process crab in the Bering Sea region.

So much for crab ratz addressing biological concerns. Safety flys out the window when we're forced to deliver on a certain date, as then we have to fish in storms to make it to the dock on time. I've spoken with many crewmen and many said they've fished in worse weather than previous ratz.

For all those that speak crab ratz, get your facts straight first before you start foaming at the mouth and writing lies of many colors, please!

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  October 8, 2007 - 7:56am | fishead_ak

Who is the moron now?

Mr. Kodiakman must not have read the State of Alaska's motion passed by the North Pacific fish council yesterday after hours of debate. For the first time ever the crab irrationalization will go through an analysis that looks at adjustments back to 50/50 and all the way to 0/100.

Shame on you Kodiakman for calling others morons, unless you include the council and state too. If you are a quota holder you are simply what is called a carpet bagger and probably from Oregon not Kodiak. It is on the other side of the Mason-Dixon line from you, bossman.

You will have to retire your whip soon. The northern slaves are fighting back and winning.

Edna

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  October 3, 2007 - 6:12pm |

Partially right however-

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  October 3, 2007 - 9:01pm | Kodiakman

IFQ system

B.S.
What would you know about it you don't fish crab, an I dont need to ask permission to bring crab anywhere.
Who said I want to bring anything back to Kodiak. Why would I do that, there has never been better prices here then anywhere else in Alaska. I would be happy if the owner of the vessel i work on sells to whoever gives him a tendor contract so I have have work all year round, not that I expect to see you out there anyway. If bobby t is helping out icicle i dont really care, my job is safe so long as there are crab to catch. An the new system protects my wage while enabling me to plan ahead so I can make a move in the future to vessel and IFQ owner.
If the rest of you are incapable of doing the same you are not welcome in the crab fishing indusrty. Go get a job on the slime-line, so your plantation owners can ensure you are able to feed your family since you lack the ability to step out on your own and earn a living with your own abilities.

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  October 3, 2007 - 10:23pm | BravoSierra

kodiakman

You truly are an uneducated deckhand. You have no idea how the IFQ/IPQ system works. Get educated, read up on the law. Get a clue or you will never "make the move".

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  October 4, 2007 - 12:47am | Kodiakman

B.S. I am familiar with the

B.S.

I am familiar with the system I have been working under it since IFQ fishing began. I am aware of how IFQ/IPQ works. The point is The system we have benefits all the PARTICAPANTS. If afew men want to take there IFQ back to Kodiak there is a sinple solution, they can buy IPQ and match there share with themsleves, What it sounds like is, you want is the same as drdrmann to take food form the mouths of my family , and the familes of the men I work with so you can live a better life at my expence. Maybe you should read the mission statement of NMFS for the the need of IFQ in the first place. This system just returned the number of vessels fishing that were fishing crab before our state over capitalized the fleet by issueing over 150 interum crab permits, and made it so much more difficult for those of us in it to make a living.
I know that some are unhappy with the current system but all 3 sectors of the indusrty gave up something to the other, in a compromise to make the system work. An it has worked very well , quotas and prices are up, there is a new opportunity for men to buy into the fishery, with much less finacial risk, then ever before. The men who lost there jobs and are now crying they were left out, are simply the few men who believed in ignorance that the decrease in jobs would fall on someone else. An made no preperations for the future should they lose there jobs. No one can claim that the reduction in jobs was a huge surprise, we all knew what was coming. Those of us who planned ahead landed on our feet, those who sat at the barstool and complained, well, we know who they are and what happened to them.
I am familiar with the regulations of the crab program, I have studied them well, in preperation for the future. I am aware of how the matching IFQ works, I know how the arbitration system works, and how beneifical it has been to the fleet, and to my income. I am familiar with the CO_OP's an how they work and are formed every year.
There are a very few hold outs, who want to fight the new program, because they can't have it all there way, they dont understand how to make it work for them, and how some simply want something for nothing, or I should say want a part of something they didnt earn. But if a person is so unhappy I suggest they sell out of crab fishing, since prices are good right now, and move to a diffrent fishery or line of work, those of us who are working in crab fishing are doing fine.
But you can always ask the people who complain the loudest , what have they done to make the crab rationalization work for them and there company?

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  October 5, 2007 - 11:14am | drdrmann

Is that you Inar?

Oh Kodiakman, if you can't reveal who you are like everyone knows who I am than you are a deceiver. All those in the crab industry that have family, community, and respect for those that actually work on the ocean have no problem with my rhetoric. Only those that speak truth can aggavate those that have hidden agendas and think only of their personal gain. I'm a second generation Alaska fisherman, who in his fathers' footsteps worked tirelessly to participate in many fisheries.

So you've read and understand the crab rationalization plan, did you read the part that states if the program is revoked that the Federal government is not repsonsible for losses, as this is a trial run? Do you not realize that many of my friends are without a job, but you persist to state that they deserve nothing. Are you that shallow that you must point out if I didn't save my money that I should move on. Did your family get to where they were at by saving money to buy into the fishery? I would assume they worked for 25 to 30 years to achieve their position in the crab fishery just as my father and I have done. A 100 pot limit would have dealt with the biological needs and economics would have run their course. It's not he Federal gov'ts job to bail industries/businesses out from going bankrupt.

I notice you will never answer any of my questions, because you don't have one solid answer, because you are wrong. You seem to like to point out how we want everything our way, but you can never look at yourself, as if you are higher and mightier than I. Well Big man, as in Ben speak, you are nothing, as you care not about your community, your friends, your country, but only of money and power/control. I advocate for my people and their futures, and ask for nothing but consideration of what is right/logical.

You speak of IFQs as if God put them on this earth, but no, they were introduced by those with avarice and cared about no other. You talk about the crab ratz program as if everything is just hunky dory, but at this point in time the DOJ antirust division is hard at work putting bullits in the IPQ sysytem. When this is all finished the crewmen will have their own co-op with a reallocation without IPQs, and if not then the whole system is bye bye, yipee kyia m*therf@cker. At least I have hundreds of crewmen that support what I do, and possible thousands of coastal Alaskans. What do you have? Some BS IFQs and sh!t 4 brains, and no friends.

Since you're so bold Kodiakkrab that you have to change blog names, try mine Shawn Dochtermann. Can you put your name up here? I doubt it, you're just another one of those losers that's scared to show his face or proclaim their name in front of the whole world. Don't worry, God knows who you are!

Kodiakman or Kodiakkrab or who ever you are, when you have something that's real to write on here besides me, me, me, me, me, me, me, my preciousssssssssss quotas, then scribe your name and stand up like a real man does. Otherwise you are just another piece of rationalization garbage that will get thrown out with the DOJ trash next year when your precious Ted is removed for violating laws of this country. Do you even know what RICO stands for kodiakscabman?

If you consider the ex vessel prices for crab good, then you must be getting paid more under the table, which is more than the rest of us. The red king crab ex vessel prices has fallen dramatically for the last two years, while the ex factory (first whoesale price has increased), so that is proof that your theory is wrong. That means that IPQs=pricefixing=you're wrong.

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  October 1, 2007 - 8:57am | kodiakkrab

Try checking your facts

Throughout the second half of the 1990's ... before rationalization... snow crab quotas were at or above 200 million pounds; almost three times the level set for this year. There were also other crab fisheries open that are now closed. So as usual your conspiracy theory is based on what? Garbage.

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  October 1, 2007 - 9:15am | twodux

That's all you've got?

I'll give you opies as far as me saying for decades. But I was generalizing. The fact remains, after Crab Ratz the quotas are heading up drastically and before they were struggling.

I've seen this happen before with halibut. Area 3B is a good example. Before and immediately after IFQ's went in 3B had a relatively small quota. Then a few years later, it was decided that the data was wrong and 3B quota exploded. But before that happened, some people in the know bought a bunch of 3B quota and got richer.

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  October 1, 2007 - 8:48pm | cushmanrx

Zippooo...

Where are you going here, to do or 2 ducks.

Quota's go up and down, always have and always will. So here you are pointing out a couple of anecdotal coincidences as if they point to some imaginary big conspiracy theory. Get a life!

When the quota's were going down what was your theory? Were you getting screwed by some conspirators then as well?

If I catch your drift you believe that "Both good news and bad news = bad news"

Whole lotta quacking, not much else. you got squat.

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  October 2, 2007 - 12:16am | twodux

quack

I'm not going anywhere here. I'm just pointing out that something smells.

Yes quotas go up and down. But it's easier for them to go down rapidly, than up rapidly. Data can be manipulated. I'm not saying it was or wasn't, I'm only pointing out that it's possible. And when the quotas were nosediving, my best guess is over-harvest and the keeping of sub legal crabs by catcher processors to a point where there weren't enough males left to breed. But that's just my guess.

The easiest way to take something away from someone is to create or enhance a crisis so that there is a perceived need for a radical solution. In this case by hiding behind supposed caring for the safety of crewmen, these same crewmen had their livelihoods taken from them. Of course in the days before Ratz, captains and owners didn't have much concern for the safety of the crewmen. These guys gave their bodies and souls to build those quotas for the owners. If someone cared about their safety and health, why were they pushed to work 48 hours without sleep. Why were boats overloaded with pots. Why did they fish in conditions from Hell? And then why were they forgotten when Ratz was rammed through?

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  October 1, 2007 - 6:31am | BravoSierra

Excellent Question

Ask Kevin Duffy. He was head of ADF&G when they were making those decisions.

Oops, I *forgot* Duffy quit ADF&G moved to Seattle after he helped the processors screw the independent fishermen over .

"On Thursday, Kevin C. Duffy, Commissioner of Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G), announced that he is retiring effective December 31, 2004 to accept a position as Executive Director of the At-Sea Processors Association (APA). The APA represents U.S.-flag catcher/processor vessels that operate in the Bering Sea."

Or ask Stephanie Madsen. She took over his job at At-Sea (Trident and American Seafoods controlled) on January 1st, 2006 after her dictatorship at the NPFMC, where she was instrumental in jamming down Processor Quota, while completely ignoring all conflict of interest laws.

By the way, she was working for PSPA (controlled by Maruha and Nissui) when she was Chair of the NPFMC. Nice job of representing the State of Alaska, Stephanie.

See a pattern here? Give the crab resource away to Processors and then go get a highly paid job with them.

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  October 7, 2007 - 2:25pm | akwapsc

Hey BS

Did it ever occur to you that folks with any talent or families cannot afford to work for fishing associations?

The highest paid Executive Director is probably around $70K for a fishing association. And that's more than I make for the nonprofit association I work for, SEAS.
That's no benefits, no travel outside the state, aside from DC, no health, no retirement, etc.

Of course they compensate by letting me fish and have other clients. But all the same, most folks who are commiss.'s, etc, can't fish and probably don't want to scrounge up clients, and most ED's probably aren't allowed outside employment.

Heck, $70K isn't really all that good of a crewshare if you fish year round.

The folks at APA and PSPA pay at least triple that amount, and for the right person, quadruple.

That's why these folks get jobs there.

I don't blame them.

When fishermen get their act together and start putting their money where their mouth is....... then they'll get talent like Madsen and Duffy, et. al.

This is not to say that all fishermen are cheapskates, but by my best estimate we spend around 1/2 of 1% of our net incomes on protecting our businesses with dues, PAC and candidate contributions, et. al.

When the halibut resource has been snatched up from us, when the Canadians have beat us, and the sporties take your last fish, or the processors for that matter, I don't have alot of empathy for those who didn't put up to save themselves. Then, when we've lost it all we might get serious?

Until then they're stuck with a trainee, or some schlock like myself who does this on the side.

bobbyt

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  October 1, 2007 - 9:00am | kodiakkrab

More Garbage In Garbage Out

And Linda Kozak and Gordon Blue, who actually asked for a "two pie" processor quota option in the early 2000 meetings that created this program? How do they fit your theory? Oh yeah, Linda's client Dick Powell got a huge chunk of quota he is now trying to sell for between 20 million and 30 million dollars... I forgot.

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  October 3, 2007 - 2:58pm |

Theory economics by Scott Matulich

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  October 4, 2007 - 9:20am | akwapsc

AFMB

Right on Shawn Doctorman.

You who singlehandedly take credit for defunding the AFMB.

Great work.

Hope you can help out the industry some more.

And go to jail?? For what??
Eating too many candy bars at meetings?

PS> It's obvious when StevieWonderBoy Taufen is out of town as your writing and musings do a disservice to the STAUFEN posts.

How many members do you guys have in Groundswell.. Must be a big outfit by now.

Have fun with Steve in your basement.

bobbyt

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  October 5, 2007 - 12:17am | drdrmann

Crab ratz is the topic

Where did I ever say that I take credit for undoing AFMB. Schactler told me in february that ASMI couldn't get the money from the S-K fund because of the whoops to jump through with FAS and the federal guidlines for matching moneys. So, let me get this straight, it was okay for senator Stevens to earmark moneys fromn the S-K fund instead of going through the federal process? Bruce went on to say , "We had to get the money", and that there was an open position on the AFMB. He suggested that I should be in that position, but I recommended my brother who probably had more knowldege of fishery marketing than the the combined knowledge of the full board. If you didn't know, he graduated from UW in International Marketing specifically aimed at seafood. Why didn't your board appoint him to the board? Was he too honest for all of you scoundrels? He was once told by his boss that "he needed to quit being so honest". Integrity is something my family is proud of, and the majority of the fishermen in the industry will attest to that. Why is no one speaking up for you?

Don't worry once you and the bandits are gone we'll help Sarah and the Congress address promoting what is best for the fishing industry, coastal communities, and boots on deck fishermen. I don't own any interest in a processor, or lobby for them as you have done in the past.

Scary to think of jail isn't it. You know your transgression, so talk with the Big Man above and figure out how to make amends.

So as Ben asked Fagan, "What do you want to know", so ask me Bobbyt. Or do you want to talk about crab ratz, since you've probably never fished crab in the Bering Sea. Do you endorse IPQs? Tell me why, if you do. Why don't you stick with the topic that I have chosen to write about on the blog. CRAB RATZ the stealing of future generations ability to access the Bering Sea and Aleutian Island crab fisheries for personal gain by a mere few hundred people. Tell me, tell me, where I am wrong. I love to share dialogue, as I speak truth. Do you have 100 people that you can call that will vouch for what you say at this very moment? I do. So as they say,"put up or shut up".

Reminder***** Shawn Dochtermann represents organizations based in Kodiak, but support and protect the interests of many coastal communities. I believe in working to promote healthy stable communities, fishermen, their families and sustainable fisheries. I have nothing to gain personaly in reversing crab ratz, except to gain access for all boots on deck fishermen and the communties they live in.

What do you promote? Yourself, your company, the oh might Stevens? You've done nothing to promote salmon prices with AFMB, except give corporate welfare to fish processors. Those private companies (don't you have an interest in one) deserve nothing from the federal gov't coffers, they need to pay their own way, try taxes, then pulling out the wallet and paying for their own marketing.

Gotta go, back to getting ready for crab. Come on up & play in the Bering Sea, if you can find a job!

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  September 30, 2007 - 9:22pm | akwapsc

2 ducks

another angle on a conspiracy.

keep em busy.

and get a spellchecker

i'm out.

bobbyt

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  October 1, 2007 - 8:59am | twodux

That's the problem

That's the problem bobbyt. When we have people like you and Ben Stevens "making things happen", people on the outside start getting paranoid as they know bad things are happening behind the scenes.

As for a spell checker, I don't need one, I have you for my personal spell checker. I admit you're not a very good spell checker tho. You might want to check spellchecker with your spell checker. And you might learn to use capitol letters where appropriate.

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  October 1, 2007 - 9:02am | kodiakkrab

Yeah and maybe they will raise crew shares too

... and maybe vessel owners will stop leasing their own quota back to the very crew that helped them earn it. Sure.

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  September 28, 2007 - 8:25pm | BravoSierra

Whatever

I am sure all Alaska fishermen agree with you.
Just ask them.
Start a poll.
Maybe Bill Allen will pay for it.
Or maybe not.

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  September 28, 2007 - 6:05pm |

Nice Try

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  September 28, 2007 - 10:11pm | djpederson

Got Chips?

If you're a commercial fisherman with a chip on your shoulder this year, then you must be inept. The last couple years have been way too good for your compaints to fall on anything but deaf ears.

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  September 29, 2007 - 1:11am | staufen

Laughable PR prattle

Don't complain when the plantation owners get to take ever more public resources on the cheap? (Ask Clem Tillion what he said about the come-back of crab in 2002 at Adak, and how it would enrich everyone. Helps to have a resource theft program like Crab Ratz to accelerate and concentrate the wealth!) Yup, this is darned good news for the rent-seeking oligarchs who are conspiring with processors to rip off the vessel operators, by taking exorbitant lease fees off the top etc.

CRIMINAL RICO! RACKETEER INFLUENCING AND CORRUPT ORGANIZATIONS.

BTW, How does oil-man Winther find time to deal with fisheries? Well, when his company Oliktok Pipeline hooked into the Kuparak area BP/Alyeska pipeline system as independents, it took a little management burden off. So Johnny could take time to help give State money from AIDEA to his fish cronies at Stikine Holdings/Sitka. His crony master, Frank Murkowski got asked as Governor to build a >$50 million permanent road at Oliktok Ridge/Kuparak field too. See the pattern here?

How do men getting rich off the backs of the plantation workers and disenfranchised vessel operators (skippers and crew) stay so relaxed. Well, I guess the greedy bucks help.

Message: Crawl back into your good old boy cave! You're not fit to live in an open society.

It's time for Justice-Antitrust and Federal Trade Commission to deconcentrate the fishing industry and put the culprits who created Crab Ratz and Pollock Ratz by illegal means in jail. And to clean the Kleptocracy house in many other ways. Top down, Ted first; or bottom up, Rob Z. and Bobby T. Just do it!

Note - Dear Governor Palin, get this racketeer facilitator off of AIDEA's board! And investigate his ties to Murkowski, and why BP/Conoco shared seismic information with these boys etc. Why weren't the earlier oil extraction companies connected to Oliktok registered in Alaska? Were they registered somewhere else to effect Abusive Transfer Pricing (product laundering)? Is this connected back through friendships forged between the Seattle 7 and Big Oil in the Exxon Valdez backroom deals?

Hint: AUDITS! Call in the IRS and Public Integrity INVESTIGATION team, too!

  September 29, 2007 - 10:23am |

Another one full of BS

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  September 30, 2007 - 2:33pm | drdrmann

Jail terms for threats

Hey Booby,

Did you not realize that the FBI reads this every day? Stay on topic: Oliktok Petroleum has had how many tens of millions of $$$s pumped through BP's pipelines? Did Taufen ruin your Southeast kickback system? Instead of making idle threats you had better decide which lies you're going to tell to the authorities this week because they are coming to visit now. Considering that you may go to Federal prison with Ben, we'll be sure to send all your blog entries to your cellblock mates.

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  October 4, 2007 - 12:51pm |

taufenbuddy

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  September 30, 2007 - 9:44am | TruthforAlaska

Threatening a commenter?

Since when is threatening violence against a reader allowed here?

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  September 30, 2007 - 12:17pm |

guess you are cluelesss

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  September 30, 2007 - 12:30pm | dkshoreline

Mr. Thorstenson - You Bring Much on Yourself

If you were not so generous with your opinions on these blogs, then the opportunity for others to share their opinions about you and your history would not be so easily available. You have made yourself an easy target.

As a more or less disinterested party, you seem to know more about where Mr. Taufen whereabouts than he does yourself. But from reading your posts, Mr. Taufen regularly haunts Kodiak and Seattle, as you have informed us, and you haunt Petersburg and Juneau - so I highly doubt that he is going to stalk you at your home. Please calm down.

I am sure from my acquaintance with Mr. Taufen that he conducts himself in a civil manner at public meetings that he has attended at which you are present, he cannot be barred from expressing his opinions and exercising his free speech rights under due process to the regulatory fishing agencies.

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  September 30, 2007 - 9:20pm |

You defame yourself

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  September 29, 2007 - 10:48am |

So, it's not part of the Fishing Expedition at the DOJ?

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  September 29, 2007 - 10:42am |

Oh and Taufen

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  September 30, 2007 - 8:37pm |

Legal Advice for Mr. Robert M. Thorstenson Jr.

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  October 1, 2007 - 10:45am | peter1

(Interlude)

("Now sways it this way, like a mighty sea
Forced by the tide to combat with the wind;
Now sways it that way, like the selfsame sea
Forced to retire by fury of the wind:
Sometime the flood prevails, and then the wind;
Now one the better, then another best;
Both tugging to be victors, breast to breast,
Yet neither conqueror nor conquered:

SO IS THE POISE OF THIS FELL WAR.")

-with apologies to Henry VI and Ted Stevens

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  September 30, 2007 - 8:38pm | BravoSierra

Isn't it is a bit early for

April Fools.....

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